The Republican Party?

[green]

Todd Akin is the perfect example of this. Just shut up. You can be stupid in your own home, with all recording devices turned off. But in public? Just shut up. I get that you believe in Jesus and that he performs miracles. But don't be a *******. If you don't know what you are talking about, then just shut up.

No leadership in the Republican Party. Too many southern/evangelical morons running their mouths off. Until Republicans realize that it isn't the 1950's anymore, the party will struggle.

 

[♪alt13]

What's wrong with the Republicans:

They have no platform. They have one guy in one area saying one thing, another in another area saying another. They have no control over their representatives and their representatives are morons that say stupid things.

They have stupid members. The tea party was embarrassing. Trump is embarrassing. They are letting the morons at the bottom (who, ironically, are the ones that don't pay taxes and use the most government aid) have too much power.

They haven't done anything when they get in control. And this goes back to no platform. Their whole gameplan is to "oppose Obama". When they can actually do something, they sit their with their hands in their pants thinking, "What do I do now? I didn't think this would work".

They have no leadership. Obama wins the nomination. So what is their best idea? Let's go get a woman. And not an impressive woman, but a moron...but, she's hot, right? And when that doesn't work out, let's put a black man in charge of our party. Why? Who knows why. Because Obama won and instead of having an intelligent plan, their plan was "let's go get a black man for ourselves".

Idiots.

This party has become a joke.

So what do you think their(in some ways our) future is?

 

[Siro]

So what do you think their(in some ways our) future is?

I don't see how they have any future in their current form. They're losing the demographics game, and their message seems to appeal to an ever shrinking group. Eventually, only babe will vote for them.

I think they will try to marganalize the tea party and other "conservative" elements in their group, and embrace a more libertarian route, focusing more on regulatory and budgetary issues. I doubt the US has enough support for a white nationalist party spin-off similar to what we see in Europe, and the Republicans have pretty much lost the battle for social values.

Edit: Remember when gay rights was a hot button issue? The good old day of 2008.

 

[b_line]

Like siro said, I think the Republicans in their current form are dead. I'm inclined to think that a lot of them will be leaving to the libertarians and others will be independent. I'd like to see a blue Republican party cone out of it but I fully expect to see the Republicans die off with bush as their last president.

 

[♪alt13]

I don't see how they have any future in their current form. They're losing the demographics game, and their message seems to appeal to an ever shrinking group. Eventually, only babe will vote for them.

I think they will try to marganalize the tea party and other "conservative" elements in their group, and embrace a more libertarian route, focusing more on regulatory and budgetary issues. I doubt the US has enough support for a white nationalist party spin-off similar to what we see in Europe, and the Republicans have pretty much lost the battle for social values.

Edit: Remember when gay rights was a hot button issue? The good old day of 2008.

It seems to me that the Republicans and Democrats have been able to hold their respective bases of support(conservative & liberal) while splitting the votes of the libertarians and populists. I wonder if there is room in our 2 party system for a party with libertarian minded voters as their base. There are enough of them but the libertarians would have to either woo liberals or conservatives. While Clinton has taken a step towards populism it doesn't seem like enough of one to disenfranchise too many liberals. The democrats would rather bend just enough to woo populists than go after libertarian minded voters. The conservatives seem to be first and foremost concerned with security and social issues with economic and fiscal concerns a secondary consideration at best. They have pushed the libertarian wing almost entirely out of the republican party.

This leaves populism in the center of American politics. GJ may be doing quite well for a Libertarian but that is only because American politics is becoming a libertarian nightmare.

2016 looks to me to mark the end of social progress in the near term and a federal government set to expand even more rapidly. I very much hope that you're right and I'm wrong.

 

[Boris]

I don't see how they have any future in their current form. They're losing the demographics game, and their message seems to appeal to an ever shrinking group. Eventually, only babe will vote for them.

I think they will try to marganalize the tea party and other "conservative" elements in their group, and embrace a more libertarian route, focusing more on regulatory and budgetary issues. I doubt the US has enough support for a white nationalist party spin-off similar to what we see in Europe, and the Republicans have pretty much lost the battle for social values.

Edit: Remember when gay rights was a hot button issue? The good old day of 2008.

Lord save us if what [MENTION=40]Siro[/MENTION] says is true. The GOP holdouts are the only ones left in the world that believe you should earn what you get. If this party dies it will be all socialism collapse world wide. I do not look forward to that.
Why can not the liberals at least acknowledge the need for adults an kids to at minimum work for ANYTHING?

 

[Jonah]

One path forward for the Republican Party is to finally ditch the Southern Strategy, moderate on immigration, climate change and social issues, and co-op the more moderate planks of the Liberation Party platform in order to broaden its base. It desperately needs to attract younger, non-white voters or the downward spiral will only accelerate.

Part and parcel of ending the Southern Strategy is for Republicans to gain a conscience and purge the party of white nationalists. Similar excoriations have occurred in the past. In 1962 leading Republicans repudiated the John Birch Society, eventually opening the door for Ronald Reagan, and a much broader base of support.

If Trump loses in a landslide necessary changes could happen by 2020. A close election might postpone things until 2024. What’s plain and increasing clear, with each passing day of this disaster of a presidential campaign, is that the Republican Party, as presently constituted and led by Trump, will never win another presidential election.

 

[♪alt13]

One path forward for the Republican Party is to finally ditch the Southern Strategy, moderate on immigration, climate change and social issues, and co-op the more moderate planks of the Liberation Party platform in order to broaden its base. It desperately needs to attract younger, non-white voters or the downward spiral will only accelerate.

Part and parcel of ending the Southern Strategy is for Republicans to gain a conscience and purge the party of white nationalists. Similar excoriations have occurred in the past. In 1962 leading Republicans repudiated the John Birch Society, eventually opening the door for Ronald Reagan, and a much broader base of support.

If Trump loses in a landslide necessary changes could happen by 2020. A close election might postpone things until 2024. What’s plain and increasing clear, with each passing day of this disaster of a presidential campaign, is that the Republican Party, as presently constituted and led by Trump, will never win another presidential election.

The problem is that the voters that would be for that no longer are, or never were, members of the Republican Party. At least not enough to get it done anyway. This is a party that is pushing the moderate conservatives out, I don't really see them welcoming small l Libertarians back into the fold.

Further if Trump hadn't completely crossed the line, like a bajillion times, he would have had a winning strategy. I think that's why he seemed to be immune to criticism for so long. A marriage between value voters and economic isolationists may yet prove to be a political power couple.

 

[Dr. Jones]

The presidency was handed to Trump (scary) on a silver platter. It's almost as if he didn't want it. He squandered it. Hell.. I really think I could beat Hillary.. not kidding. But he's a walking douchenozzle.

He could have won, easily.. but was too stupid. Now we have Hillary... which is awful.

I just don't get this country.

 

[b_line]

If the Republican party wins next time the presidency is really up for grabs, it'll be because of mark Cuban. I'm gonna bet the farm he will be president in 2024.

 

[Jonah]

The problem is that the voters that would be for that no longer are, or never were, members of the Republican Party. At least not enough to get it done anyway. This is a party that is pushing the moderate conservatives out, I don't really see them welcoming small l Libertarians back into the fold.

I agree with most of this. It’s funny and almost sad that Reagan would be a moderate in today’s Republican Party. The party has been committing a slow suicide, first by Cheney/Bush neo-con incompetence and, more recently, by the Tea Party purge of what they stupidly call RINOs. Now the party has been turned over to a self-obsessed nativistic narcissist. The only way out is drastic reformation or death. You seem to think (hope?) the party will die and be replaced by a libertarian incarnation. I think they’ll find a way to reform, even if it’s not along the moderate lines I would prefer.

Further if Trump hadn't completely crossed the line, like a bajillion times, he would have had a winning strategy. I think that's why he seemed to be immune to criticism for so long. A marriage between value voters and economic isolationists may yet prove to be a political power couple.

I don’t think Trump has ever had a winning strategy. Trump wouldn’t be Trump if he didn’t continually cross the line. He reiterated just yesterday that he has no intention of making a pivot to a more traditional campaign. Trump being a jackass is what endears him to his base, but what worked in the primaries was always destined to fail in the general. It only seemed plausible, for maybe a week or two back in July, that Trump might prevail because he’s up against a historically bad Democratic candidate.

 

[UGLI baby]

The presidency was handed to Trump (scary) on a silver platter. It's almost as if he didn't want it. He squandered it. Hell.. I really think I could beat Hillary.. not kidding. But he's a walking douchenozzle.

He could have won, easily.. but was too stupid. Now we have Hillary... which is awful.

I just don't get this country.

iawtp

 

[b_line]

I saw a meme that said something like "the same people who say Trump is so great for speaking his mind are those who have to explain why he doesn't actually mean what he says when he says something stupid."

 

[b_line]

Better possible rnc nominees than Trump:

Paul Ryan
Mitt Romney
Jeb
Marco
Mark Cuban
Pkm
Upturned broom with a bucket for a head

 

[♪alt13]

I agree with most of this. It’s funny and almost sad that Reagan would be a moderate in today’s Republican Party. The party has been committing a slow suicide, first by Cheney/Bush neo-con incompetence and, more recently, by the Tea Party purge of what they stupidly call RINOs. Now the party has been turned over to a self-obsessed nativistic narcissist. The only way out is drastic reformation or death. You seem to think (hope?) the party will die and be replaced by a libertarian incarnation. I think they’ll find a way to reform, even if it’s not along the moderate lines I would prefer.


I don’t think Trump has ever had a winning strategy. Trump wouldn’t be Trump if he didn’t continually cross the line. He reiterated just yesterday that he has no intention of making a pivot to a more traditional campaign. Trump being a jackass is what endears him to his base, but what worked in the primaries was always destined to fail in the general. It only seemed plausible, for maybe a week or two back in July, that Trump might prevail because he’s up against a historically bad Democratic candidate.

I do hope that they would be replaced by a libertarian leaning(which would be moderate)incarnation but I do not think that is what will happen.

I think that you are missing something fundamental when you discount Trumps appeal as mere persona. There is a reason that the Democratic convention looked like a GW Bush jerk off fest. There is a reason why Hilary has been focusing on promises that Trump can't deliver. There is a large contingent of the democratic party that only votes that way because their number one concern is the subsidies for white middle class people, namely ssi and medicare. It wasn't until the DNC trotted out the parents of a dead soldier and Trump couldn't help but feud with them that he started to fall behind.

What the left seems to be missing is that if the republicans abandon the economic argument it doesn't just leave libertarians on an island it leaves liberals on one too. Trump had the right idea he just took it too far and deep down even his supporters know he's full of ****. We may not be so lucky to have such an incompetent politician in 2020.

 

[Siro]

I do hope that they would be replaced by a libertarian leaning(which would be moderate)incarnation but I do not think that is what will happen.

I think that you are missing something fundamental when you discount Trumps appeal as mere persona. There is a reason that the Democratic convention looked like a GW Bush jerk off fest. There is a reason why Hilary has been focusing on promises that Trump can't deliver. There is a large contingent of the democratic party that only votes that way because their number one concern is the subsidies for white middle class people, namely ssi and medicare. It wasn't until the DNC trotted the parents of a dead soldier and Trump couldn't help but feud with them that he started to fall behind.

What the left seems to be missing is that if the republicans abandon the economic argument it doesn't just leave libertarians on an island it leaves liberals on one too. Trump had the right idea he just took it too far and deep down even his supporters know he's full of ****. We may not be so lucky to have such an incompetent politician in 2020.

In my opinion, it is difficult for populists to win in as comfortable a population as the American. Sure you have the anti-immigrants bigots, but the US does not have real immigration issues, and Mexicans simply aren't disliked nearly as much as Muslims are in Europe to fuel a far-right party of any consequence. Anti-estbalishment sentiments will persist for as long as there is an estbalishment, but when it comes down to it, people are comfortable enough not to want to shake things up too much. "Political correctness" is just a buzz word that is partially an overreaction to a legitimate, but overblown, problem with the left, but this will also fade as new populisms take its place.

I feel that the people you're worried about are getting older and older, and the Republicans issue-focus is getting softer and softer. Gone are the days of politicians winning because of their anti-gay or anti-abortion stance. New issues like transgedered rights don't seem to inspire the same level of fervor as comprabale civil rights issues did just a decade ago.

It is impossible to predict how exactly the Republicans will evolve. But I am not overly worried about Trump-but-competant polticians taking over.

But I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Edit: I am reminded of a conversation I once had with fishonjazz outside of a bowling alley. He said he liked Sanders, and he wanted to vote for him, but he doesn't really buy all this talk about a reovlution. He might be of modest means, but he doesn't want his life to change in any significant manner. He's happy enough. I think that's how most Americans, deep inside, really feel.

 

[Siro]

Better possible rnc nominees than Trump:

Paul Ryan
Mitt Romney
Jeb
Marco
Mark Cuban
Pkm
Upturned broom with a bucket for a head

I would vote for Romney, Cuban, or PKM over Clinton. And I don't mind Clinton.

 

[green]

Here is the problem:

You HAVE to have redistribution of wealth. That isn't up for debate. The question is, how do you redistribute it? It used to be the democrats wanted to tax and redistribute it and the republicans wanted to have it trickle down through their own charity and through competition.

The Republican dream was this: Go work for the big boss, get experience, pay your dues, and start your own business.
The Democrat dream was this: Go work for the big boss, join the union, have the union take care of you.

The problem with that is that deregulation has gotten so bad that there isn't any more competition. Walmart has taken over. Where you used to have a couple grocery stores, 2-3 electronics stores, multiple clothing stores, etc, now you have none of that. You have Walmart...with no union.

So, both dreams are dead. You can't work for big boss and start your own business, because there are so many advantages for Walmart that you can't compete with them. You can't work for Walmart and be taken care of with healthcare/pension/etc because there are so many advantages for Walmart that you can't do anything to change them.

So, you now have two warring factions. The democrats have a face on their enemy and a plan. The republicans have nothing. And the republicans are in a bind. Because of trickle down, all their money has pooled at the top. So, they can't pass any laws to hurt big business and actually make America better (increase competition). And the only people dumb enough to buy the crap they are selling are the ones benefitting (the uber rich) and the ones too stupid to realize that deregulation has taken away all competition and there is no way to move up anymore.

A good example of this is the death tax. The death tax is irrelevant for 99% of Americans. Yet, poor republicans feel like when they die, their trailer and truck will be taken away by Obama and given to some poor person (the irony is rich). They don't know that in order for the death tax to apply to them, they have to leave each individual over 5 million dollars (10 if they are married). Maybe one of us on this board will leave that kind of wealth behind.

I've rambled on here and hopefully it makes some sense. It boils down to this:

Republicans have hitched their wagons to trickle down. Only the rich and uneducated buy into that theory.

Republicans are mainly Evangelical/Mormon and still think that women have no control of their bodies and belong at home and other races/groups are not as "whatever" as their whiteness is.

So, they have successfully alienated the middle class, women and races other than white.

That's a tough road to hoe. That leaves you with rich, old white men and poor people. Good luck with that.

I've always been/considered myself Republican. Until they swing back to the middle...I'm not republican. I'm not for excessive regulation, but we need some. We need to create a playing field where everyone can compete. If we don't get back to that, the American Dream will die.

The American Dream was that anyone could make it with hard work. That isn't the case anymore.

 

[fishonjazz]

The presidency was handed to Trump (scary) on a silver platter. It's almost as if he didn't want it. He squandered it. Hell.. I really think I could beat Hillary.. not kidding. But he's a walking douchenozzle.

He could have won, easily.. but was too stupid. Now we have Hillary... which is awful.

I just don't get this country.

Agreed.
I remember reading a conspiracy theory about how trump and hillary were going to be the two candidates and then trump would intentionally lose to her. Then, as president, she would try to enact policies to help trump in the business world.

And I remember hearing that conspiracy theory before the primaries even began

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Agreed.
I remember reading a conspiracy theory about how trump and hillary were going to be the two candidates and then trump would intentionally lose to her. Then, as president, she would try to enact policies to help trump in the business world.

And I remember hearing that conspiracy theory before the primaries even began

Yep, I heard the same. I thought it was ridiculous, but seeing how things have played out it sure seems possible. Also, check out what I just stumbled across:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNE_cjSFCXU
Are our politics, both parties, really as corrupt as they look at the moment? I think probably yes.