fallenchicken
Well-Known Member
Jay's interview would have made a great episode...Wow. He somehow comes off as even less trustworthy than you'd expect.
The Serial Podcast
- Thread starter Nightmare
- Start date
The Jay interview swung me around pretty hard. I went from 70-80% than Adnan did it to closer to 40% that he did it. Jay's new timeline has the body being buried something like 6-8 hours later than he originally testified. That means that none of the cell records make sense anymore and the alibi timing is totally different.
It's totally possible that someone else Jay cared about killed her and he's covering up that killing by pointing fingers at the most plausible and convenient suspect possible.
It's totally possible that someone else Jay cared about killed her and he's covering up that killing by pointing fingers at the most plausible and convenient suspect possible.
Based on what we heard on the podcast, I had reasonable doubt.
That's what stuns me...are there people who don't have reasonable doubt?
I'm not sure if I already referenced it in this thread, but for the reasonable doubt issue this reminds me of a local case here (well up in Ft. Collins anyway). A teenager named Tim Masters was convicted of murder (albeit 10 or so years after the murder), despite a total lack of physical evidence. Yet according to the jury he was convicted not because of any damning piece of evidence, but because a whole bunch of little pieces all added up (there was also some police and prosecutorial shenanigans...and he later was released and I believe the conviction was overturned, thankfully due to DNA evidence). And once I heard that it scared me a bit that juries can be made up of complete and total morons. The evidence against Masters was so non-existent that I couldn't believe they could convince 9 grown men/women to convict, yet they did (at one point they used violent drawings...which was absurd yet it worked...damn those jurors were morons, just total and complete morons).
Here is the wiki link on that case if anyone is interested:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peggy_Hettrick_murder_case
On a general note, I hate to see people get convicted of any crime unless there is good physical evidence, or video evidence. Or at the very least multiple eyewitnesses.
Hotdog
Well-Known Member
After reading Part1 of the Jay interview, I feel more strongly that Adnan did it.
I'm not sure what the problem is here, and why so many want to free Adnan. The guy did it. It's obvious. There's no need to be trying to free a convicted murderer.
Jay said he helped dig the hole to bury the body, and he saw the dead body. I see no reason for him to lie about that, or make it up. Unless he did it himself and is trying to frame Adnan. That leaves only two possibilities of who did it. It's either Jay or Adnan. Jay is saying Adnan did it, and Adnan is saying he has no idea who did it. He's playing dumb, saying he can't remember what happened that day. How can you not remember what happened that day, the day your girlfriend was murdered? A day like that, anyone would remember.
Ya, there isn't a bunch of physical evidence that days Jay did it, but everything else points right or to him. There is no reason to try and help this guy. Everyone should just move on to a case that has a little more doubt involved.
I'm not sure what the problem is here, and why so many want to free Adnan. The guy did it. It's obvious. There's no need to be trying to free a convicted murderer.
Jay said he helped dig the hole to bury the body, and he saw the dead body. I see no reason for him to lie about that, or make it up. Unless he did it himself and is trying to frame Adnan. That leaves only two possibilities of who did it. It's either Jay or Adnan. Jay is saying Adnan did it, and Adnan is saying he has no idea who did it. He's playing dumb, saying he can't remember what happened that day. How can you not remember what happened that day, the day your girlfriend was murdered? A day like that, anyone would remember.
Ya, there isn't a bunch of physical evidence that days Jay did it, but everything else points right or to him. There is no reason to try and help this guy. Everyone should just move on to a case that has a little more doubt involved.
enchilada_style
Well-Known Member
The problem is the lack of physical evidence which makes it less than obvious that Adnan did it. Surely you could be right I just don't think it is obvious and the interview with Jay just adds more holes to his story.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
No shocker here, but I'm glad you aren't a part of the Justice system.
The Blue Elephant
Well-Known Member
The willingless to set aside the greatest protection our justice system has which is the presumption of innocence. No body can put you into jail until they can prove you have done what you are accused of. If you drop this it may be you one day who is more easily convicted as a result and you will know what it means.
Hotdog
Well-Known Member
The system nabbed the right guy. Just because there isn't a smoking gun, doesn't mean he didn't do it. The investigators could have easily missed the physical evidence they needed, or there simply wasn't any because Adnan disposed of it.
We all know OJ murdered two people. But he was let off based on technicalities. I bet you weren't cheering when he was let off.
The system isn't perfect, and sometimes an innocent person goes to jail. Sometimes gulity people get off, but most the time guilty people go to jail.
If we start setting a standard that no one goes to jail, unless there is mountains of indisputable evidence against that person, then no one is going to jail, and crimes will increase. The world will be a much more dangerous place. Assumptions are made all the time in every case. We have to use our imaginations for what happened. We have to connect the dots. As time moves on, we will rely on more evidence because of technology and how it will help. But the past is what it is. We did the best we could with what we had.
An innocent young girl was murdered and will never get her life back. Trying to free her murderer because it's a cute little liberal pet project, is disgusting. All this podcast is about, is trying to show that people of darker skin are put in jail just because of their skin color, not because of their crime. Which is 99% false. Most criminals go to jail because they committed the crime.
I think you're making a false assumption that putting more people in prison equals less crime. I don't think it really works that way.
Just an FYI on your earlier post. Hae was not Adnan's girlfriend. If he didn't murder her then he didn't find out she got murdered until about 6 weeks later. So he isn't trying to piece together the details of the day until 6 weeks later.
I think, had Adnan been properly represented by his lawyer, he would not have been convicted. That's the problem, imho.
I think it's more likely than not that Adnan killed her.
The total lack of physical evidence to me leaves a massive quantity of reasonable doubt.
Hotdog
Well-Known Member
Huh?
Hae wasn't Adnan's girlfriend??
Did you listen to the podcast?
Hae and Adnan were together and they broke up. That's been the narative in the whole story.
His girlfriend didn't go missing, his ex-girlfriend went missing. They had been broken up for weeks.
Hotdog
Well-Known Member
Great. I guess that means anyone can murder anyone as long as they get rid of physical evidence. While we are at it, let's convict on physical evidence alone, making it easy to frame someone.
I'm pretty sure motive, alibis, circumstantial evidence, etc, plays a part in the case too. Physical evidence is only one piece of the case.
I think you can safely and easily narrow this down to two suspects. Jay and Adnan. One or both did it. I feel like that kinda eases the need for physical evidence, other than differentiating between the the two. At this point, I concede that it could be Jay, but highly unlikely. It would have to be one hell of a frame job. I do think Jay isn't telling the whole truth. He probably helped more than he admitted, like help carrying the body and stuff. I think he was just a dumb wannabe thug trying to keep up his tough guy image when something real went down, then it slowly hit him how serious it was and he caved.
If this were a different case, then I would be more inclined to think physical evidence would be necessary.
I don't feel bad for Adnan sitting in jail. I'm 99% sure he did it. That's why I don't care if there is physical evidence. And that's why he is sitting in jail. A jury of our peers saw it that way as well.
Hotdog
Well-Known Member
They were broke up a week.
There were phone records of him calling 3 times around midnight the night before her death. I think that's the same night she was going on her first date with her new boyfriend Don. Suddenly he stops trying to call her too, after she dissappears. Hmmm?
He was a jealous heart broken crazed ex-boyfriend who snapped. It's actually a common motive among women getting murdered.
"It's better to acquit x100 wrongdoers than to convict x1 innocent man"?
Isn't our whole justice system supposed to be based on that?
Isn't our whole justice system supposed to be based on that?
Hotdog
Well-Known Member
I've heard that. But I'd rather it be the other way around. I'd rather a 100 freaks be off the street plus one innocent man. Not all the freaks in streets.
Seriously, if we want to be so cautious that we never accidentally convict a man of a crime, we wouldn't be able to send anyone to jail unless it was committed on camera with witnesses.
Yeah ok but there is absolutely no evidential proof in this case though not a single one. Everything is circumstantial. I would find it hard to convict someone based on that alone.