Through Jesus, I am defined by being God's child.

[Jazz Spazz]

This thing won't let me edit.

Jazzspaz - my last post continued my assumption that you thought God's inconsistent answers were the work of Satan.

You clarify by saying that is only one possibility. I think that's a cop out. If you claim to believe that God answers consistently, then you need a good explanation for why so many people get so many varied answers from God.

As to the edit, after you go to edit, go to advanced and it will work.

As to a good explaination, there are probably as many explainations as there are scenarios when it happens, that is why I dont answer.
Give me a scenario and I can try my best, but I would still be guessing.
Here are a few reasons, people really are not listening, people are dishonest when they say they have an answer for various reasons, people listen to Satan's false answer (which can happen in my opinion when they do not ask in the name of Christ), people are not sincere in a desire to do what needs to be done when they get that answer. Questions and answers are an individual thing, and I make no claim to know the why's of everything.

I make the claim that I know what has been promised to work, not to know everything about what or why something does not work.

 

[m3at]

It would not be much of a test for us to chose right if we could remember living with God and all that we learned there would it. He does not banish us we banish ourselves from returning to live in His presence, if we do not desire to find our way back. And yes God is benevolent because he provides us a place in heaven even if we chose to use our free agency unwisely.

as a father of 3 children I can't think of any scenario where I would put my children through what it is that God expects out of us and yet, I still go to church. Go figure.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Stop thinking. Doubt is not our friend.

That about sums up the argument.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Again, this is your belief. What someone else half way across the world believes, and trust me, they believe it more than you do, enough to fly some planes into buildings.

I think we should stop worrying about what other people believe, and focus on what "I" believe.
If you ask God what to believe, and he answers you, isn't that all that matters for you?
Yes these other people with different beliefs scare you, but don't let that affect what you believe.
If you truly got an answer from God, why would you listen to other people?
Why even be afraid of other people?
Do I believe God told those people to fly their plane into a building? No
If a leader in my church told me to do something would I blindly do it... no.
I would ask God if what that leader told me to do is something I should do.... if my answer was yes... then I would do that thing.

Always turn to God in everything. This is why prayer is so important.

Yes it is my belief.

 

[Marty McFly]

I love Utah!

 

[porqsmith]

You may not believe me, but I am saying that if you in full honesty want an answer to if God is real, you need to put some effort into it. Read the Bible or something, think about all the good things that (and assume there is a God) God had done for mankind according to the Bible from the creation of Adam to today. In all sincerity pray in the name of Jesus Christ if God is real with all the feeling you have in you. Think of how a loving parent would answer a child's question. The answer will come in a positive way, and you will probably feel really good inside. Put aside doubt, and all the other questions you have and just give it a try. Trust me, when you get a real answer from God, you will know it and probably not forget it. Satan cannot deceive you if you pray to God and ask him a question in the name of Christ. He can't interfere with that. He may try to stop you from trying, or even praying..... but once you get the words out of your mouth you will know the difference.

Stop thinking. Doubt is not our friend.

How much effort is enough? I grew up in the church. I accepted the teachings. I had your definition of faith. I attempted to gain testimony through the official process. I'm not going to spend my whole life trying to elicit a response from an elusive god that is at best, inconsistent, and at worst, malevolent.

You seem like a genuinely nice person, but when you tell someone not to think, you come off as intellectually dishonest, and that's the friendliest term I can come up with.

 

[porqsmith]

As to the edit, after you go to edit, go to advanced and it will work.

As to a good explaination, there are probably as many explainations as there are scenarios when it happens, that is why I dont answer.
Give me a scenario and I can try my best, but I would still be guessing.
Here are a few reasons, people really are not listening, people are dishonest when they say they have an answer for various reasons, people listen to Satan's false answer (which can happen in my opinion when they do not ask in the name of Christ), people are not sincere in a desire to do what needs to be done when they get that answer. Questions and answers are an individual thing, and I make no claim to know the why's of everything.

I make the claim that I know what has been promised to work, not to know everything about what or why something does not work.

"I make the claim that I know what has been promised to work"

At what point, in the face of how much contradictory evidence, are you forced to consider the possibility that what you were taught was false?

 

[porqsmith]

If a leader in my church told me to do something would I blindly do it... no.
I would ask God if what that leader told me to do is something I should do.... if my answer was yes... then I would do that thing.

Isn't that against your church's teachings? I'm pretty sure you're required to follow the prophet even if he's wrong.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

How much effort is enough? I grew up in the church. I accepted the teachings. I had your definition of faith. I attempted to gain testimony through the official process. I'm not going to spend my whole life trying to elicit a response from an elusive god that is at best, inconsistent, and at worst, malevolent.

You seem like a genuinely nice person, but when you tell someone not to think, you come off as intellectually dishonest, and that's the friendliest term I can come up with.

I was specifically talking about praying. When you go to pray, don't have all the doubts in your mind. Just go to God, and pray and ask what you want to ask.
If you want me to get more specific, I will. There are 3 things I think are most important as a foundation to find out if they are true. 1- pray to know if God is real, 2- pray to know if Jesus Christ is the Son of God and Savior of the world 3- pray to know if the Book of Mormon is really the word of God. The other stuff can come step by step but they build on themselves. It will take consistent effort, and may take a little time, but I would not think it would take forever.

If you clear your mind of all the bad things you are attributing to God, and focus on any of the good things you can that you can assume came from God that will help.

I am not saying to stop thinking altogether, that would be crazy.

 

[NUMBERICA]

It would not be much of a test for us to chose right if we could remember living with God and all that we learned there would it. He does not banish us we banish ourselves from returning to live in His presence, if we do not desire to find our way back. And yes God is benevolent because he provides us a place in heaven even if we chose to use our free agency unwisely.

If a parent did that to their child, that would be called psychological abuse in any other context. You don't have to tell me all of this, I went through 18 years of it. The longer I stay distant from such looney tunes, the more sane I become and the crazier it all sounds. Have you ever told someone that native americans are actually jews and looked at their face?

Speaking of which, that is not a fact. Literally disproven. But we should dismiss that because god never changes his mind and blacks could have the priesthood, then couldn't for 150 years, then could. Because god said.

I will never understand how adults believe in this stuff. I know that is condescending, sorry if I've offended.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Isn't that against your church's teachings? I'm pretty sure you're required to follow the prophet even if he's wrong.

No. Every propehet has encouraged all members to ask God if what they are teaching is true. Never do they ask people to blindly follow.
That is the definition of a prophet, a mouthpiece for Christ, who will continually point people to Christ.
A prophet that does not direct people to Christ, is a false prophet.

If you listen to them, they give advice, and teach people.... but there is still a requirement on every person to find that truth for themselves.

 

[jazzrule]

Again, this is your belief. What someone else half way across the world believes, and trust me, they believe it more than you do, enough to fly some planes into buildings.

You seem to want to argue instead of trying to find out the truth. Why are there so many different churches and religions you want to know. Because believing in God I also believe in Satan. Satan would have us believe differently to cause confusion and dissention among us. You have been given the steps to find out for yourself, if God exist. Don't use Satan as a way to disprove God. We have lost electricity here and my battery is running out, so chat with you later.

 

[footawn]

hey guess what, Deron is an all star! (making this thread slightly more jazz-related)

 

[Jazz Spazz]

That about sums up the argument.

That sums up what you want to hear.
I said that about a specific thing, and you want to use it as a blanket.
Nice.

 

[porqsmith]

No. Every propehet has encouraged all members to ask God if what they are teaching is true. Never do they ask people to blindly follow.
That is the definition of a prophet, a mouthpiece for Christ, who will continually point people to Christ.
A prophet that does not direct people to Christ, is a false prophet.

If you listen to them, they give advice, and teach people.... but there is still a requirement on every person to find that truth for themselves.

OK. I'm pretty sure I remember being taught that we were to follow the prophet no matter what, and if he was wrong we'd be rewarded for our loyalty. This was probably just individual saying this and not an official doctrine.

 

[Marty McFly]

Utards will believe anything.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

I love Utah!

You can actually have this same discussion anywhere.
By the way, I think I enjoyed Cali a bit more... and I miss the beach and the weather.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Utards will believe anything.

Hey, Mcfly..... I thought I told you to never come in here?

 

[NUMBERICA]

You seem to want to argue instead of trying to find out the truth. Why are there so many different churches and religions you want to know. Because believing in God I also believe in Satan. Satan would have us believe differently to cause confusion and
dissention among us. You have been given the steps to find out for yourself, if God exixt. Don't use Satan as a way to disprove God.

Arguments like these lead to things like these;

My outrageous examples only mirror an outrageous ideology.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

OK. I'm pretty sure I remember being taught that we were to follow the prophet no matter what, and if he was wrong we'd be rewarded for our loyalty. This was probably just individual saying this and not an official doctrine.

You could probably find someone said that somewhere.
Personally I would rather confirm with God first.
By the way I have never found a difference in what a Prophet said, and an answer I received.
That's just me, but I also believe God will not allow a Prophet to lead his people the wrong way, somehow he would stop it before it ever happens.