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Through Jesus, I am defined by being God's child.

But seriously, I'm going to try to check out.

If I've burned too much credibility in this thread, then I am sorry because I would ask everyone here that encourages us all to plead with god to reveal His truth to put as much effort in questioning it. You can't have an answer if there was never really a question.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Arguments like these lead to things like these;
My outrageous examples only mirror an outrageous ideology.
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We also think you are crazy, and love you for it.
Thanks for that.

On that note, I think I may be checking out of this conversation.
 
JazzSpazz said:
I was specifically talking about praying. When you go to pray, don't have all the doubts in your mind. Just go to God, and pray and ask what you want to ask.
If you want me to get more specific, I will. There are 3 things I think are most important as a foundation to find out if they are true. 1- pray to know if God is real, 2- pray to know if Jesus Christ is the Son of God and Savior of the world 3- pray to know if the Book of Mormon is really the word of God. The other stuff can come step by step but they build on themselves. It will take consistent effort, and may take a little time, but I would not think it would take forever.

If you clear your mind of all the bad things you are attributing to God, and focus on any of the good things you can that you can assume came from God that will help.

I am not saying to stop thinking altogether, that would be crazy.
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I don't actually attribute any bad things to God. I just don't believe there is a God, or anything like it.

When I say I've tried your methods for obtaining the answers, I'm being honest. I grew up in the church and made every effort to go along with it all. I've since been exposed to various other belief systems, most of which ask for the same or similar leaps of faith. I think they're all equally false.

Further, I think faith is a fault, not a virtue. I think the leaders of your church are, at best, misguided fools, and at worst, power hungry charlatans.
 
I wonder... how you can tell the difference between when you get an answer from "God", or when your subconscious gives you an answer that sounds like something you'd believe God would say?
 
NUMBERICA said:
But seriously, I'm going to try to check out.

If I've burned too much credibility in this thread, then I am sorry because I would ask everyone here that encourages us all to plead with god to reveal His truth to put as much effort in questioning it. You can't have an answer if there was never really a question.
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Wholeheartedly seconded.
 
jazzrule said:
You are like someone that will not put a seed in the ground to get it to grow. You want the plant first. No work no gain. We are God's children and have been sent to earth to get a body and to prove ourselves worthy of returning back to God and living with him for eternity. After paying for your own sins you will still get into one of the lower kingdoms of Heaven, because God loves you so much. Your Hell will be that you had the chance to inherit all that your Heavenly Father has and to live with him forever and youi chose with your free agency to not try and find your way back.
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You're basically calling my position childish? That I want the rewards without putting in the work?

I don't want the rewards, I don't think they exist.

My question based on your statements is: What's the purpose of the test? What does it prove about us, our souls? Our greatest tool, our mind, cannot be used to pass this "test," in fact we must reject our mind and have faith in order to pass. So the point of the test is to discover if we will abandon our greatest asset and hand our life over to God, since it's his life after all. We are his property, his servants. Our life was not given to us for our own purpose, but for His. We are here to follow His plan. This does not appeal to me. If I was viewing this set of circumstances through a supernatural lens I'd say Satan has won and has convinced you that his way is what God wants. I can't imagine anything more sinister than the plan God has for me. It is not beautiful in my opinion. Not something I wish I could accept if only I wasn't so stubborn and cynical.
 
porqsmith said:
Reality does not require faith, as it is observable. We may misunderstand our observations at times, but we can always keep trying.

I think everyone accepts that there are things out there that we don't (yet) understand. The problem is that believers try to define that which we don't know or understand and claim their definitions as truth.
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If we don't understand it yet then any explanation is as good as any other. How can you say, until it has been proven, that their way of looking at it is wrong?
 
NUMBERICA said:
Arguments like these lead to things like these;

My outrageous examples only mirror an outrageous ideology.
Click to expand...

Hitler tried to stamp out religion. Does that put him in your camp?



Not every bad thing happens in the name of religion.
 
LogGrad98 said:
If we don't understand it yet then any explanation is as good as any other. How can you say, until it has been proven, that their way of looking at it is wrong?
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What you mean to say is that any explanation is as bad as the other. Any explanation not based on reality is a bad explanation.

The real problem arises when those with a bad explanation try to make it the only explanation.

Take the theory of evolution. It's based on observable facts. It is not complete, as it does not explain everything about all life on earth.

We have a great many people trying to argue that we shouldn't teach our children these facts about evolution, because they already have an explanation: God did it. This explanation is not based on reality. The theory of evolution is. This is a problem, because these people want to teach the children of the world not to look for answers in reality.
 
Nobody cares about your damn religious beliefs already. Can you guys please STFU? Or at least take it to the general board.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Hitler tried to stamp out religion. Does that put him in your camp?
Click to expand...

buckle.jpeg

"God With Us" I was originally going to include this in the slew of photos but decided against it.

The relationship of the Third Reich and religions is a complex one, but to say that it's goal was to stamp out religion is ignorantly O'Reilly-esque. Much of the Nazi leadership was officially Roman Catholic, even if that didn't influence their decisions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Nazi_Germany

2freidrichcoch.jpg


If Hitler wanted to stamp out Catholicism, he did a terrible job of it. Considering how effective he was at targeting and eliminating any other group as he saw fit, and his forces possessed the Vatican, his objective - as you state - was a colossal failure.

Not every bad thing happens in the name of religion.
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I didn't say that nor did I imply it. It appears you assumed again. And please don't give me neg rep again because I know the difference.
 
Just because you cannot recognize an implied meaning does not mean others are assuming. And yes Hitler did greatly restrict the Catholic church. He was systematically targeting groups that might disrupt his control, as well as groups he felt were "impure" and did not fit the aryan profile. He started with groups he hated the worst. Luckily he was stopped before he finished it. And I never IMPLIED you said it was only religious groups. You ASSUMED that. I was simply giving counterpoint to your argument. Sorry you couldn't recognize that.
 
NUMBERICA said:
buckle.jpeg

"God With Us" I was originally going to include this in the slew of photos but decided against it.

The relationship of the Third Reich and religions is a complex one, but to say that it's goal was to stamp out religion is ignorantly O'Reilly-esque. Much of the Nazi leadership was officially Roman Catholic, even if that didn't influence their decisions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Nazi_Germany

2freidrichcoch.jpg


If Hitler wanted to stamp out Catholicism, he did a terrible job of it. Considering how effective he was at targeting and eliminating any other group as he saw fit, and his forces possessed the Vatican, his objective - as you state - was a colossal failure.


I didn't say that nor did I imply it. It appears you assumed again. And please don't give me neg rep again because I know the difference.
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To my knowledge plenty of roman catholic priests were sent to concentrations camps when hitler concocted his final solution. A holocaust survivor made a painting recollecting his detainment:https://fcit.usf.edu/HOLOCAUST/gifs2/D33b.gif

Besides, The Soviet Union was an atheist state...
 
Forest from the trees?

When you rigidly marry yourself to a dogma that makes people mortal enemies or vessels of satan, bad things happen. That's my point in bringing up all of that and I would think sensible people would agree. Confused as I am about the things people believe in, I couldn't care less if it doesn't impede opportunities or target people of certain demographics. Believe on, Deron and whoever else.
 
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