Too Many Question Marks

[NAOS]

Is it QUin's fault Donovan Mitchell gets an 8 second violation that essentially loses us the game? No.

Is it Quin's fault Royce Oneale was too scared to shoot in game 5? No.

Actually, Q mightve called a TO when he saw that DM wasn’t gonna make it up the court inside 10 seconds, let alone 8.

 

[NAOS]

These rebuttals to HH’s main points are pretty funny.

 

[One Brow]

I get the sneaking suspicion that we’ll get less “u think u know better than GMs lol” posts this year.

There would be just too many to bother typing out, and everyone knows that anyhow.

 

[One Brow]

I think he expects less of those "gms always know best" comments.

When you are talking about who does and does not play, that would be coaches, for the most part.

I would expect there to be more guessing when you are the GM.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Ain't gonna litigate the Denver series... there is plenty of blame to go around there. Just think Quin is slow to adjust at times and not nearly the experimental evil genius some make him out to be. I think he's a good coach though.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Actually, Q mightve called a TO when he saw that DM wasn’t gonna make it up the court inside 10 seconds, let alone 8.

I didn't want to say it but this. He also could have used a couple coaches challenges at some point. He could have tried to throw a change up or two in games 1-6 when covering the Jokic Murray actions?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

These rebuttals to HH’s main points are pretty funny.

We had 6-7 roster spots dedicated to question marks... we found out a little more about Niang and we figured out what we probably already knew about Bradley and Mudiay.

Blame the GM, Coach, or both... but now we have a bunch of guys that we don't know much more about and will likely keep most of them and bring in guys to play in front of them. Its the Tony Bradley development path to nowhere program.

 

[NAOS]

I didn't want to say it but this. He also could have used a couple coaches challenges at some point. He could have tried to throw a change up or two in games 1-6 when covering the Jokic Murray actions?

No. We expect our starting pitcher to throw complete games with his fastball.

Evil Genius, doe.

 

[Hekate]

That's fine and in that case you blame DL for dedicating 1/3 of the roster to the development program when the actual program needed some help.

Two G-League players, one rookie contract and Morgan. How many teams have play-off rotation worthy 2 way players? And Morgan was fine defensively with Rudy but he did not do well with his center minutes, he wasn't better than Tony Bradley.

And Quin was royally ****ed by DL. 2 duds in Jeff Green and Ed Davis did not help him at all.

We didn't need a Dort level of success... Brantley, Morgan, or maybe Oni give us something different that helps the defense have a chance with Rudy out. We don't know because we never tried it. I just think a coach with great vision would be able to say that Niang and TB are likely to get completely BBQ'd in the playoffs... maybe we try one of these other guys that might not be it, but there is a chance. Maybe you try some zone to compensate for the fact that some teams will cook drop big schemes or because you have some defensive liabilities that might be better suited to that type of coverage.

We definitely needed a Dort level of success to stop Murray - Jokic handoff. Rudy dropped because all of our perimeter defenders were late recovering. Brantley and Oni may have helped spell some time defensively but they would also be huge negative offensively. It's just a trade-off where you need to maximize your player who is playing phenomenally. We could have made a few stops but that would also mean constant double teams where Brantley and Oni were open and they are significantly worse shooters than Niang, Ingles and Royce. It doesn't make much sense.

Just think he needs to get in his bag a bit... Be more of a Nick Nurse and less of a Coach Bud.

There wasn't much in the bag...

Raptors play like they do because they have the personnel for it, they have athletes with good defensive instincts and they still **** up rotations because they play a very chaotic type of defense. They also have to play like that because they are not a good halfcourt team, they need transition buckets. Quin also tried stuff on Murray and Jokic but there wasn't much execution.

 

[Miggs]

We had 6-7 roster spots dedicated to question marks... we found out a little more about Niang and we figured out what we probably already knew about Bradley and Mudiay.

Blame the GM, Coach, or both... but now we have a bunch of guys that we don't know much more about and will likely keep most of them and bring in guys to play in front of them. Its the Tony Bradley development path to nowhere program.

Pretty much. We have a def six (counting JC) and imo Morgan and Brantley should be keepers. If we brought back Favors for the MLE (that’s 7) and signed that Bulls guy you like for wing depth and drafted BPA, wed hopefully then have 8 or 9 legit rotation players.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

We had 6-7 roster spots dedicated to question marks... we found out a little more about Niang and we figured out what we probably already knew about Bradley and Mudiay.

Blame the GM, Coach, or both... but now we have a bunch of guys that we don't know much more about and will likely keep most of them and bring in guys to play in front of them. Its the Tony Bradley development path to nowhere program.

What?

Ed Davis, Jeff Green, and Mudiay didnt start off as question marks.

Mudiay was the 3rd string PG (and played well). Green and Davis were lauded by analyst as solid additions.

Sure, Oni/Morgan/Bradley were question marks, but they were the 13th/4th/15th guy. When Green didnt pan out they added Tucker. So four total "question marks".

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

There is so much hindsight hand-wringing over this roster, it's extremely annoying.

The Jazz had a great roster that got hit by a big time injury and two veterans who completely busted beyond our wildest dreams.

 

[NUMBERICA]

There is so much hindsight hand-wringing over this roster, it's extremely annoying.

The Jazz had a great roster that got hit by a big time injury and two veterans who completely busted beyond our wildest dreams.

Most of what you call "hindsight" is actually foresight that came true (Bradley isn't a worthy rotation player, Morgan probably is and would likely be more so if he played).

The Jazz had seven legit rotation players (but had better success when they had six...). There were always question marks as to the depth of the roster.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

What?

Ed Davis, Jeff Green, and Mudiay didnt start off as question marks.

Mudiay was the 3rd string PG (and played well). Green and Davis were lauded by analyst as solid additions.

Sure, Oni/Morgan/Bradley were question marks, but they were the 13th/4th/15th guy. When Green didnt pan out they added Tucker. So four total "question marks".

Oni/Morgan/Bradley/NWG are 4 question marks... Mudiay had never been reliable on a good team so there were questions. He came here to develop... Both two-way guys are obviously question marks.

I will give you Ed... everyone knew it was dangerous to rely on Jeff Green... but also everyone has fallen for that trick before. When Ed busts you waive one of the established options in Jeff Green so you can sign Tucker... another project. Could have waived NWG. Green may not have been the biggest issue in that bench unit.

I understand we got there a little wonky but you had a roster filled with projects and guys the coach didn't trust. Its okay to do that but you should at least find out a little bit about them. We also had ample opportunity to waive NWG and put something else more established at the end of the roster. Our playoff rotation included lots of Niang, some of Juwan Morgan and TB, and a dash of Mudiay when Conley was out... that's kinda rough. Every team has injuries... Bojan was a big one but many teams are missing a rotation player.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Most of what you call "hindsight" is actually foresight that came true (Bradley isn't a worthy rotation player, Morgan probably is and would likely be more so if he played).

The Jazz had seven legit rotation players (but had better success when they had six...). There were always question marks as to the depth of the roster.

Its the combo of a **** ton of projects and a coach that wasn't willing to try many of them.

And yeah it would have taken a super expert to understand that TB/Niang combo was gonna be a problem. Morgan wasn't great as the backup 5 in game 7... but Quin waits until Game 7 of a playoff series to get there. As you can tell from my signature I got there a little quicker.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Two G-League players, one rookie contract and Morgan. How many teams have play-off rotation worthy 2 way players? And Morgan was fine defensively with Rudy but he did not do well with his center minutes, he wasn't better than Tony Bradley.

And Quin was royally ****ed by DL. 2 duds in Jeff Green and Ed Davis did not help him at all.



We definitely needed a Dort level of success to stop Murray - Jokic handoff. Rudy dropped because all of our perimeter defenders were late recovering. Brantley and Oni may have helped spell some time defensively but they would also be huge negative offensively. It's just a trade-off where you need to maximize your player who is playing phenomenally. We could have made a few stops but that would also mean constant double teams where Brantley and Oni were open and they are significantly worse shooters than Niang, Ingles and Royce. It doesn't make much sense.



There wasn't much in the bag...

Raptors play like they do because they have the personnel for it, they have athletes with good defensive instincts and they still **** up rotations because they play a very chaotic type of defense. They also have to play like that because they are not a good halfcourt team, they need transition buckets. Quin also tried stuff on Murray and Jokic but there wasn't much execution.

I understand the point on two-ways... but thats where you put two of your projects. You don't stack two there and then 4 on the regular roster (morgan, Tucker, Oni, NWG). TB is clearly a guy we didn't trust as we kept Udoh around for two years and then signed Davis to play ahead of him. If you don't plan on playing him why pick up his option and why keep him? That is just too much unknown.


I wasn't talking specifically on Denver... just saying if you know you can bank on one or two of these guys being functional rotation players it helps you build next year's roster... we really aren't any closer there.

I know Morgan wasn't good as the backup center in game 7... Quin waits until Game 7 of the playoffs to try it though... did we think he'd be awesome in his first run in that role?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Pretty much. We have a def six (counting JC) and imo Morgan and Brantley should be keepers. If we brought back Favors for the MLE (that’s 7) and signed that Bulls guy you like for wing depth and drafted BPA, wed hopefully then have 8 or 9 legit rotation players.

If we did that I'd be happy. We likely don't have the budget for it. I also don't know that we'd feel comfortable relying on Shaq.

If we'd have given Morgan more run maybe we don't have to blow our wad on Favs and can use it elsewhere.

We need to move Ed and TB to have room to use MLE... doing that will require DL to give up some seconds or go to Gail and ask for cash to dump them on another team. Guys he signed or drafted and reinvested in. Its like going to your pops when you effed up and asking for money... ain't very fun.

 

[Hekate]

I understand the point on two-ways... but thats where you put two of your projects. You don't stack two there and then 4 on the regular roster (morgan, Tucker, Oni, NWG). TB is clearly a guy we didn't trust as we kept Udoh around for two years and then signed Davis to play ahead of him. If you don't plan on playing him why pick up his option and why keep him? That is just too much unknown.


I wasn't talking specifically on Denver... just saying if you know you can bank on one or two of these guys being functional rotation players it helps you build next year's roster... we really aren't any closer there.

I know Morgan wasn't good as the backup center in game 7... Quin waits until Game 7 of the playoffs to try it though... did we think he'd be awesome in his first run in that role?

Bradley was the first out of the program and he clearly outplayed Davis and unless matchups were in favor of Morgan, he played better but this discussion went from Quin to DL. I wish we had more rotation players but they aren't usually the 11 to 15 guys. Denver had 5 guys that never have played against us. I am sure they did not say why don't we try Keita-Bates on Mitchell.

Again, Quin didn't have much to do with Green and Davis not panning out. That moved everyone up a spot on rotation.


Morgan had minutes at center in earlier games too but he was outsized and it wasn't like his timing on contests were great. We did not lose because Quin did not try Morgan at center or took him out of starting line-up.

I think they know what to expect from the development guys. Basing everything on spot minutes there and there is not really a good way to evaluate players. We can make space for them in the rotation if they impress next season.

 

[Miggs]

If we did that I'd be happy. We likely don't have the budget for it. I also don't know that we'd feel comfortable relying on Shaq.

If we'd have given Morgan more run maybe we don't have to blow our wad on Favs and can use it elsewhere.

We need to move Ed and TB to have room to use MLE... doing that will require DL to give up some seconds or go to Gail and ask for cash to dump them on another team. Guys he signed or drafted and reinvested in. Its like going to your pops when you effed up and asking for money... ain't very fun.

Not sure if it’s a possibility but I’d be happy with Udoh and Harrison. Not like there’s a ton of time go around anyway. Gives us 48 minutes of dominant d at the C position and some wing help. Draft BPA and develop the young guys, namely Morgan and Brantley. That could be a really good team. One move at the deadline and who knows.

 

[jom2003]

Oni/Morgan/Bradley/NWG are 4 question marks... Mudiay had never been reliable on a good team so there were questions. He came here to develop... Both two-way guys are obviously question marks.

I will give you Ed... everyone knew it was dangerous to rely on Jeff Green... but also everyone has fallen for that trick before. When Ed busts you waive one of the established options in Jeff Green so you can sign Tucker... another project. Could have waived NWG. Green may not have been the biggest issue in that bench unit.

I understand we got there a little wonky but you had a roster filled with projects and guys the coach didn't trust. Its okay to do that but you should at least find out a little bit about them. We also had ample opportunity to waive NWG and put something else more established at the end of the roster. Our playoff rotation included lots of Niang, some of Juwan Morgan and TB, and a dash of Mudiay when Conley was out... that's kinda rough. Every team has injuries... Bojan was a big one but many teams are missing a rotation player.

In Denver series, they had only 2 games of Gary harris and 0 of Will barton, with whom i'd believe is a player on par with bojan.

It's frustrating to blow a 3-1 lead but Denver clearly has more talented players than us and we wouldn't have led the series anyways if it wasn't for DM's historic scoring performance that basically made up for Bojan's scoring production. We didn't lose the series because of lack of offense. We lost because of our defensive woes and I'm just afraid that there isn't much Bojan could've helped us on that end.