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Top-15 potential of young Jazz players

Will young Jazz players reach the top-15 for their position?

  • Kessler - yes

    Votes: 28 68.3%

  • Kessler - no

    Votes: 12 29.3%

  • Keyonte - yes

    Votes: 15 36.6%

  • Keyonte - no

    Votes: 24 58.5%

  • Hendricks - yes

    Votes: 6 14.6%

  • Hendricks - no

    Votes: 33 80.5%

  • Sensabaugh - yes

    Votes: 1 2.4%

  • Sensabaugh - no

    Votes: 37 90.2%

  • Cody - yes

    Votes: 10 24.4%

  • Cody - no

    Votes: 29 70.7%

  • Collier - yes

    Votes: 11 26.8%

  • Collier - no

    Votes: 28 68.3%

  • Filipowski - yes

    Votes: 24 58.5%

  • Filipowski - no

    Votes: 16 39.0%
  • Total voters
    41
Don’t buy into the brother fallacy. Look at the Holidays… 3 very different bodies. Getting the worse brother has been mostly a miss.

If Cody shoots it well he will be a nice NbA wing even if he doesn’t fill out like Jalen.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Don’t buy into the brother fallacy. Look at the Holidays… 3 very different bodies. Getting the worse brother has been mostly a miss.

If Cody shoots it well he will be a nice NbA wing even if he doesn’t fill out like Jalen.
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No one is saying he will become Jalen. Just pointed out that suggesting he cannot fill his frame and throwing out AK's name is not it.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Don’t buy into the brother fallacy. Look at the Holidays… 3 very different bodies. Getting the worse brother has been mostly a miss.

If Cody shoots it well he will be a nice NbA wing even if he doesn’t fill out like Jalen.
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At this point, I'd be happy if he filled out like Jerami Grant. He needs to build his base especially
 
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HermanG said:
No one is saying he will become Jalen. Just pointed out that suggesting he cannot fill his frame and throwing out AK's name is not it.
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I don't really worry about the frame. I think there are very few guys that can't fill out and get stronger. AK could have filled out and kind of did but he could have filled out better. I think the shot will be the biggest thing. If he is a 40% three point shooter. He should be a decent NBA wing. He has enough toolsy stuff and defense to be at least a solid bench rotation wing.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Don’t buy into the brother fallacy. Look at the Holidays… 3 very different bodies. Getting the worse brother has been mostly a miss.

If Cody shoots it well he will be a nice NbA wing even if he doesn’t fill out like Jalen.
Click to expand...

Thing is, the Holiday brothers are probably closer than most groups of brothers. They at least all made the NBA (despite different bodies). IMO, I don't think Jalen is any more relevant than another player's brother who you've never heard of, which is most of their brothers.

Handlogten's Heros said:
I don't really worry about the frame. I think there are very few guys that can't fill out and get stronger. AK could have filled out and kind of did but he could have filled out better. I think the shot will be the biggest thing. If he is a 40% three point shooter. He should be a decent NBA wing. He has enough toolsy stuff and defense to be at least a solid bench rotation wing.
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I think the frame matters because he's not just skinny, he's an unprecedented kind of skinny. Like he needs 15 lbs and then he will be skinny. There's no doubt he can add size, but he's 15 lbs from being 15 lbs away. As far as shooting, I agree it will make him a good NBA player regardless. Only concern with that is there really isn't a track record of him being a good shooter. His college sample size was so small his % is basically irrelevant, though the low volume is not a good indicator.

I have an opposite kind of feeling about him. I don't find him to be very toolsy. I guess it depends on what you mean by toolsy, but usually I associate that with guys with much better physical profiles and/or unique skill combinations. Tbh, I don't even know if I use that term right but Cody is not what comes to mind with toolsy. Things that you would typically associate with high potential. Like you, I think he can be a solid rotation wing and I actually feel good about him reaching that level....but it's hard for me to see much beyond that. If he does become a top 15 type player at his position, it will be as a super utility guy. Those guys are valuable.
 
KqWIN said:
Thing is, the Holiday brothers are probably closer than most groups of brothers. They at least all made the NBA (despite different bodies). IMO, I don't think Jalen is any more relevant than another player's brother who you've never heard of, which is most of their brothers.
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Yeah just used them to show how Jrue is a tank and Justin is a string bean and Aaron is small. Blake and Taylor Griffin are more the type of standard I think of... I said on the pod I am not sure how Cody is thought of if Jalen isn't his brother and that the "Law of the Worse Brother" doesn't have a lot of NBA success.

KqWIN said:
I think the frame matters because he's not just skinny, he's an unprecedented kind of skinny. Like he needs 15 lbs and then he will be skinny. There's no doubt he can add size, but he's 15 lbs from being 15 lbs away. As far as shooting, I agree it will make him a good NBA player regardless. Only concern with that is there really isn't a track record of him being a good shooter. His college sample size was so small his % is basically irrelevant, though the low volume is not a good indicator.

I have an opposite kind of feeling about him. I don't find him to be very toolsy. I guess it depends on what you mean by toolsy, but usually I associate that with guys with much better physical profiles and/or unique skill combinations. Tbh, I don't even know if I use that term right but Cody is not what comes to mind with toolsy. Things that you would typically associate with high potential. Like you, I think he can be a solid rotation wing and I actually feel good about him reaching that level....but it's hard for me to see much beyond that. If he does become a top 15 type player at his position, it will be as a super utility guy. Those guys are valuable.
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Toolsy just meaning he can dribble a little, he can pass a little, he can defend across a couple positions (maybe more with some girth). Utility would be another way to describe what I was going for. Basketball tools not necessarily physical tools I guess.

I don't have much concern about him filling out. I doubt he goes full middle linebacker like his brother but likely gains the good 20 lbs he needs to be solid but move well as a SG/SF.

I don't see a big upside. He's kind of a different version of the bet we made on Taylor. The player type is valuable so can be impactful even if the upside isn't sky high.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Yeah just used them to show how Jrue is a tank and Justin is a string bean and Aaron is small. Blake and Taylor Griffin are more the type of standard I think of... I said on the pod I am not sure how Cody is thought of if Jalen isn't his brother and that the "Law of the Worse Brother" doesn't have a lot of NBA success.


Toolsy just meaning he can dribble a little, he can pass a little, he can defend across a couple positions (maybe more with some girth). Utility would be another way to describe what I was going for. Basketball tools not necessarily physical tools I guess.

I don't have much concern about him filling out. I doubt he goes full middle linebacker like his brother but likely gains the good 20 lbs he needs to be solid but move well as a SG/SF.

I don't see a big upside. He's kind of a different version of the bet we made on Taylor. The player type is valuable so can be impactful even if the upside isn't sky high.
Click to expand...

I’d agree with that last point. Hendricks was very good in key areas that made him a very safe pick. Cody I’m a little more worried at because even though he’s more well rounded he might be lacking in some of the key areas.
 
Ron Mexico said:
His brother wasn't really much his sophomore year in college, which is where Cody would be.

It's wild to me how much people here value future picks and upcoming draft players and then give them 10 games and give up on them. Most players take a couple years to develop, especially with these guys getting drafted so young. But then again this is a Jazz board so most of the posters think the world is against them and are just here to complain.
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Sports fans in general are mouth breathing morons when it comes to analysis and judging their own skills at analysis. This place is better than Jazz twitter, but only just.
 
Random thought, is Collier a version of Scoot with worse PR? Both were number one in their class at one point. Collier was “exposed” at USC whereas Scoot stunk it up in the GLeague and had excuses made for him.

I think Scoot stans would say he’s way more athletic. I think Scoot would win in a dunk contest but he’s also a horrific finisher around the basket.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
It's a little bit nit picky, but I really don't like the title of the thread vs the question in the thread. I personally substituted the word ,"could" instead of "will" for the question and it helped me answer the poll.

I don't think any of our guys are super likely to be top 15 guys, so gun to my head, "will they" I would answer no to all of them. All of these guys are still very young though and have a huge amount of development so "could" they get to that point, then I think the majority of them could. I answered yes to Kessler, Keyonte, and Cody as those are the guys I think are most likely.
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You have a point.
 
Thee Idiotic Minivan K said:
Still doesn’t change the fact he can’t dribble and shoot
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I have absolutely no argument about that. I dont think he does anything particularly well right now.

Yet, he is very young and looks like he doesnt have a grown man body yet so I'm at least having high hopes he will look different. However thats not actually among his top 5 issues when it comes to being a NBA player.
 
KqWIN said:
Thing is, the Holiday brothers are probably closer than most groups of brothers. They at least all made the NBA (despite different bodies). IMO, I don't think Jalen is any more relevant than another player's brother who you've never heard of, which is most of their brothers.



I think the frame matters because he's not just skinny, he's an unprecedented kind of skinny. Like he needs 15 lbs and then he will be skinny. There's no doubt he can add size, but he's 15 lbs from being 15 lbs away. As far as shooting, I agree it will make him a good NBA player regardless. Only concern with that is there really isn't a track record of him being a good shooter. His college sample size was so small his % is basically irrelevant, though the low volume is not a good indicator.

I have an opposite kind of feeling about him. I don't find him to be very toolsy. I guess it depends on what you mean by toolsy, but usually I associate that with guys with much better physical profiles and/or unique skill combinations. Tbh, I don't even know if I use that term right but Cody is not what comes to mind with toolsy. Things that you would typically associate with high potential. Like you, I think he can be a solid rotation wing and I actually feel good about him reaching that level....but it's hard for me to see much beyond that. If he does become a top 15 type player at his position, it will be as a super utility guy. Those guys are valuable.
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Genetics do matter and do provide indication. Its not really something you can empirically dismiss by pointing at few examples out of the total population. Brother isnt actually the correct direction to look at for evidence, since the anomaly may be the one who turned out to be big. But in this case, Cody would be the anomaly if he stays forever skinny.
 
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HermanG said:
I'm not gonna troll you this time, but genetics do matter and do provide indication. Its not really something you can empirically dismiss by pointing at few examples out of the total population. Brother isnt actually to correct direction to look for evidence, since the anomaly may be the one who turned out to be big. But in this case, Cody would be the anomaly if he stays forever skinny.
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Obviously Cody can and probably will fill out.

However... why does he seem to be physically incapable of running faster than jogging speed right now? I mean for a guy built as lightly as him, he just looks slow. That has nothing to do with muscle.

Just doesn't seem like a fast twitch guy, which isn't usually a great starting point for a perimeter player adding bulk.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Obviously Cody can and probably will fill out.

However... why does he seem to be physically incapable of running faster than jogging speed right now? I mean for a guy built as lightly as him, he just looks slow. That has nothing to do with muscle.

Just doesn't seem like a fast twitch guy, which isn't usually a great starting point for a perimeter player adding bulk.
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As I also mentioned few posts above, his frame/size isnt a top 5 concern about him right now.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
It's a little bit nit picky, but I really don't like the title of the thread vs the question in the thread. I personally substituted the word ,"could" instead of "will" for the question and it helped me answer the poll.

I don't think any of our guys are super likely to be top 15 guys, so gun to my head, "will they" I would answer no to all of them. All of these guys are still very young though and have a huge amount of development so "could" they get to that point, then I think the majority of them could. I answered yes to Kessler, Keyonte, and Cody as those are the guys I think are most likely.
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That Hendrix injury kind of ruined the season for me. And now Kessler isn't playing either. The two guys I was most excited to watch this season.

What happened with Kessler anyway and what is the timeline for a return?

Sent from my OPD2203 using Tapatalk
 
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