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Trade deadline discussion

FAILED STATE said:
I wish we could’ve snagged Theis. He would’ve helped load manage Favors and Rudy during this stretch run and could’ve been a nice ingredient against Denver and the Lakers.
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LoPo said:
I really like the Theis trade. We could have done it for our exception and saved Boston all $5 million of his salary.

Sure we would have Theis and Favors to back up Rudy, but could have been really good value. He offers something different than Faves.

Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app
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I'm not sure we could have done that deal because it may have pushed us over the hard cap. I also think Boston needed a player... Mo is a solid rotation player... maybe we could have done it for Morgan or something.

I like Theis.. not sure either guy would have been cool with alternating roles... not a popular opinion but if I could give Favors contract to Theis and swap them out I would.
 
MeloTheJazzKiller said:
You should have gotten Austin Rivers. With him you would have definitely won your first Championship. Now....you won't even make it past the second round.

I told you Rivers was sure to be traded. You could have had him. Poor guy is now going to waste the year away in OKC.

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What if he gets bought out and wants to come here?
 
I don’t understand this idea that because people are in high level positions that somehow they execute everything to exactness. There’s still other people out there competing with them. Just because Donovan is an all-star doesn’t mean all the shots he takes are good or that all his decisions are the best decisions for that situation. If you think that organizations that have a lot of money at stake in outcomes can’t often make choices that, unbeknownst to them, don’t fully serve those purposes, then I don’t know what to say. In my profession I see decisions every day that are poor decisions made by people in high places or with significant level of expertise. That’s not because my profession is some outlier. It’s like anything else. This is more like the second grader who thinks their parents are infallible. If you look at all the times an organization has screwed up, it’s been done by people who are professionals and who are paid handsomely to make those decisions. And the ones that you see are only the minority of ones that reach our awareness. There’s a vast sea of mismanagement out there — in any field in the world.
 
One Brow said:
Favors has a 20 PER and a .246 WS/48. We can play the same defense with him on the court as with Gobert, and it's not terrible. If he's so terrible, who's a better back-up in the league?
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What about Tony Bradley? He's had 21.1 PER and a .244 WS/48. A pretty qualified backup center by your standards?

Funny enough, when i looked up the advance stats you mentioned on Basketball Reference, it automatically filtered out "non-qualifier for rate stats". And both Favors/Bradley got tossed for being small sample size. So basically your stats were rejected by the website itself for its inaccuracy.

And wanna know who leads the entire league for both PER and WS/48 if you turn off the "non-qualifier" filter?

www.basketball-reference.com

2020-21 NBA Player Stats: Advanced | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the Advanced player stats for 2020-21 NBA Season and more on Basketball-Reference.com
www.basketball-reference.com www.basketball-reference.com

Our dearest Rayjon tucker who has a a 55.1 PER and a 1.134 WS/48.

So why not check out some non-rate based stats like BPM or net rating to see how well Favor's doing this season? I can tell you it ain't pretty.

And we "play the same defense with him on the court as with Gobert"? If you don't have time to watch games, just follow andy larsen on twitter and he will watch games for you.
 
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infection said:
I don’t understand this idea that because people are in high level positions that somehow they execute everything to exactness. There’s still other people out there competing with them. Just because Donovan is an all-star doesn’t mean all the shots he takes are good or that all his decisions are the best decisions for that situation. If you think that organizations that have a lot of money at stake in outcomes can’t often make choices that, unbeknownst to them, don’t fully serve those purposes, then I don’t know what to say. In my profession I see decisions every day that are poor decisions made by people in high places or with significant level of expertise. That’s not because my profession is some outlier. It’s like anything else. This is more like the second grader who thinks their parents are infallible. If you look at all the times an organization has screwed up, it’s been done by people who are professionals and who are paid handsomely to make those decisions. And the ones that you see are only the minority of ones that reach our awareness. There’s a vast sea of mismanagement out there — in any field in the world.
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I think the flip side is true too... if these guys are super duper smart and have everything completely thought out then they consciously decided to make a decision that will either:

a- cost an enormous amount of excess cash.
b- seriously hamstring our ability to keep key components of our core together.

Couple simple moves - either flipping the late first rounder we used on Udoka for a early/mid second rounder... or asking Favs/JC to take just a little less money and we avoid the tax.
 
It will be interesting to see what the buyout market looks like. I know he hasn’t played much the last year and a half, but I’ve always liked Avery Bradley as a defensive guard.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I mean look at some of the deals he’s handed out over the years... several overpays. In some of the trades where we are not negotiating against a lot of suitors he gives the kitchen sink to get a deal done. Every player we signed this offseason got a player option. If we got a discount on any of those that’s okay to give an option but we were paying full sticker. Player options suck... only downside on those.

There has just been too many deals where he gives 25-30% more than he should have to when compared with other deals.
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Who were the Jazz bidding with for Clarkson? I know he's been playing out of his mind after the fact, but let's remember that the only market he had was the Jazz or the MLE.

I'm down to have happy players and being generous and all of that, but if the Jazz shaved off relative pennies on some of these deals, the Jazz glide under the LT which is gonna have (and already has had) real asset and roster ramifications.
 
Houston looks like it has too many players on its roster and would need to make a few cuts to trim down to 15 players.
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
Houston looks like it has too many players on its roster and would need to make a few cuts to trim down to 15 players.
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Really? They have a couple interesting guys but I'll bet they waive ones I wouldn't want.
 
FAILED STATE said:
Running an organization is complicated. Lots of moving parts. And there’s an art to all the parts. You’re acting like it’s plug-and-play.... like all the right details and timings are obvious, you just gotta get someone in the role.

It’s pretty obvious that some teams are much better at this stuff than others. Why would that be? Are the Utah Jazz the best?I
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Not sure what I said that led to the plug and play comment but I think it is as far from plug and play as it can be. I do agree that many posts on this board reflect overly simple plug and play logic rather than a dynamic and even daily changing environment.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I mean look at some of the deals he’s handed out over the years... several overpays. In some of the trades where we are not negotiating against a lot of suitors he gives the kitchen sink to get a deal done. Every player we signed this offseason got a player option. If we got a discount on any of those that’s okay to give an option but we were paying full sticker. Player options suck... only downside on those.

There has just been too many deals where he gives 25-30% more than he should have to when compared with other deals.
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Handlogten's Heros said:
I mean I had a conversation with a high ranking Jazz person at summer league a few years ago when he scoffed and mocked me because I said a player was going to get cut and he overheard a conversation and interjected. He was very dismissive and I jokingly said well that’s why you are the expert. Fast forward a few weeks and the player I said was getting cut gets cut for the exact ****ing reasons I stated. This wasn’t a scout that scoffed at me... it was a VP level dude.

Just because you get a check doesn’t mean you are always right.

The Milwaukee front office had several mistakes this summer that cost the team a bunch of money. These guys aren’t perfect.

If Ryan knows all the ins and outs of the cap I’d be surprised... that’s for other people to handle... if he knows everything and they projected everything out and he was cool going into the tax by a couple million then fine. If he’s cool with it costing him 40M or more in repeater tax or getting rid of talented guys later then fine. If we asked Favs to take a cut and he wouldn’t then fine. Someone in the front office was a little short sighted... if it was Ryan and he’s cool paying for it later then great. When it costs us a player please don’t complain.
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There is no situation in life where the experts are always right so we agree on that. That is completely different than knowing where the money is being spent. I dont see any situation of going over the cap with the owners are not in the middle of the approval process. As for the overpaying part, I am sure it has happened for all teams but we can agree to disagree on the frequency you suggest and completely fabricated notion that we bid against ourselves. I have no problem with differences of opinion but the idea that our FO or DL are incompetent and sloppy is ludicrous.
 
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