There are plenty of stars in the league who carry every bit as much of a burden offensively as he does and still manage to be good/great defenders.
Trade deadline discussion
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There are plenty of stars in the league who carry every bit as much of a burden offensively as he does and still manage to be good/great defenders.
LoPo
Well-Known Member
I agree. He's our best defender which speaks to our problem. Nobody on our roster is a good perimeter defender.
Don gets a lot of focus around here about his defense, but he steps it up in the playoffs. Most stars do the same where they play pretty awful season defense then apply themselves more come playoff time.
It's truly unfortunate we haven't added a great perimeter defender to this core as to lessen the load on that end. Ultimately, it will be our demise.
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Hearsky
Well-Known Member
"He's our best defender which speaks to our problem." What does this mean? Are your referring to DM?
Don's definitely not our best perimeter defender.
It could refer to Don and it could refer to anyone. They’re all equally bad, so saying someone is “the best” isn’t differentiating from “the worst.”
Honestly, in matchups where we’re getting lit up, we need to abandon the defensive scheme and have Rudy be Ben Simmons and put him on the perimeter guy, then put Hassan in the paint. It’s the only way.
Of our rotational players Conley is our best perimeter defender by a decent amount. Unfortunately he's getting older and is undersized.
Mitchell doesn't step up in the playoffs on defense so far. In end up games moments or when a perimeter player is hot he tries to step up and play good defense for a few plays. But trying for a few plays a game doesn't make up for the rest of the game. He should be a good defender, we know he can when he chooses to. That's why it's frustrating.
Mitchell doesn't step up in the playoffs on defense so far. In end up games moments or when a perimeter player is hot he tries to step up and play good defense for a few plays. But trying for a few plays a game doesn't make up for the rest of the game. He should be a good defender, we know he can when he chooses to. That's why it's frustrating.
How do people feel about Gary Harris? I haven’t actually seen much of him play. If memory serves he had a reputation as a good defensive guard but am not sure if that rep is warranted or not.
Orlando is definitely in full-on rebuilding mode. That is a team poised to trade veterans. I imagine Harris and Ross are both available.
Orlando is definitely in full-on rebuilding mode. That is a team poised to trade veterans. I imagine Harris and Ross are both available.
It's embarrassing watching him navigate his way around a pick. That and when he just randomly decides to not guard his opponent every now and again.
Katastrofica
Well-Known Member
What I don't like DM wise is whenever he's trying it must be flashy move or asist for Instagram stories. Baseball passes whos getting guys out of balance or end like to. Also not fan he's running in 3 defender's in 4th quarter. And ofc after u take 30 shoots u are useless on defence at the end
The Fresh Prince
Well-Known Member
Ironically I did a trade to get Terrence Ross for Joe Ingles on 2k.
fallenchicken
Well-Known Member
Again people are so locked in on the perimeter defense thing they can't see anything else. Every play, every loss, is because of our perimeter defense according to this forum. But the Pacers game was less about the play of perimeter defense, but a real lack of effort from Whiteside and our bigs. It was kind of disturbing actually. It's going to be hard for the jazz to win with Rudy out, especially if whiteside doesn't care to play hard.
LoPo
Well-Known Member
LoPo
Well-Known Member
Did you watch the Denver series in 2020? In Game 7, we came back because Don completely locked down Murray in the 2nd half while also carrying us on offense. We needed Conley to step on defense and offense (he was pathetic). Don ran out of gas and nobody was there to create offense. Don can play great defense but he doesn't do it often enough.
This whole narrative about Conley being some great perimeter defender is garbage when the playoffs come. He's not stopping anybody. He's not slowing down the opposing team's best player. He's struggling to guard Morris or Beverley if he's on the court at all.
Royce is our best perimeter defender and that is our issue.
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The system has laziness baked into it. Laziness is facilitated on the perimeter because of scheme. In transition, no emphasis or attempt is ever made to actually defend, you just foul. Even in the penalty or on clear path. Whiteside definitely wasn't giving effort last night, but all you're seeing with that is him being the last man with the hot potato. Of course he'll look even more lazy by comparison when Rudy isn't there to do Rudy thigs, and those Rudy things are covering everyone else's sins. Now everyone's sins are upon Whiteside.
Why was our perimeter defense/effort so much better against Toronto? Because none of those guys have had multiple years of conditioning to not play it.
Maybe this is crazy, but what about Myles Turner? He's definitely available, and could act as the secondary rim protector, but can actually space the floor a little. He was pretty good last night guarding our guys out to the perimeter.
campaignist
Well-Known Member
I get the thought process but he's already not a good fit next to another center, and other teams would have more to offer regardless. If the Jazz didn't already have Gobert, I'd definitely go for it, I like Turner's game.
Yeah, I hear you but the Jazz are not going to win with Rudy out regardless. Whiteside needs to play better but every player on the floor factors into team defense. Whiteside is not nearly as good as Gobert and cannot cover as many mistakes as he can. Nobody can.
I was curious to see the opponent shot chart in wins versus losses and I think it is pretty telling. The Jazz are giving up 1.3 more field goals (2.6 pts) in the restricted area in losses, but where they are really being attacked is in the mid-range and 3 point line. In losses, the Jazz are giving up 2.3 more field goals (4.6 pts) in the mid-range and 1.2 corner three-point shots (3.6 pts). Interestingly, those are almost all coming from the left corner. In losses opponents are shooting around 5% better in the restricted area, 6% better in the mid-range, and an astonishing 16% better on corner 3s. The Jazz are the 4th best team in the league overall when it comes to limiting opponents 3-point corner shooting percentage, but drop to the 5th worst team in the league in games that the team loses.
Overall, opponents are making 48.2% of their FGs when the Jazz lose compared to 43% in wins and from three opponents are making 38.2% in Jazz losses versus 31.5% in wins. The Jazz are giving up a total of 114.8 points in losses compared to 103.7 in wins.
Conversely, the Jazz are scoring 118.9 points in wins and 108.3 in losses. Interestingly, their shooting percentages are not very different in wins versus losses (about 4.5% worse from three, 4% worse overall). Their number of shot attempts are pretty similar in wins compared to losses, as are free throw attempts, assists, offensive rebounds, turnovers, steals, blocks, and fouls. The Jazz get about 5 defensive rebounds less per game, but we're only giving up 0.6 more offensive rebounds in losses so that difference in defensive rebounding probably just reflects that the opponents are making more shots when the Jazz lose.
Overall, this tells a story of just a few possessions per game. The Jazz win when they make two more three-point shots and two more two-point shots, and when they lose they miss those shots and their opponents make 1.2 more corner threes and 3.6 more two-point shots.
We would have to dig into the numbers more deeply to know how consistent those numbers are across all wins and all losses as a lot of detail gets lost in averages. After looking into all that I'm not entirely sure what that tells us, but it does seem to point to a need to better defend the mid-range and corner 3, especially on games when the offensive scoring falls even a few FGs short of their mark.
Plenty? Not really.