Trade deadline discussion
- Thread starter Jingled
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Turner and Sabonis are actually positive together and negative by themselves, but yeah Turner at the 4 next to Gobert would look way different.
I've shifted my thought process from a rotation level perimeter defender to a starting caliber 4 that can defend. Turner and Grant are the ones that seem to be available.
Our closing 5 isn't capable of getting defensive stops when it matters, especially against teams that can take Gobert out of the paint. Donovan and Bogey are our defensive weak links. We are obviously closing with Donovan, so that leaves Bogey's spot to upgrade defensively.
I had hope Gay could fill that void, but I'm not hopeful so far.
Ideally we could keep Bogey and put him in the 6th man role and trade Clarkson, although I don't think the money works that way.
No one said Conley is a great defender. But he actually tries which is more than most. He should have guarded Murray more that series he bothered him a few times in the rare situations he guarded him. Mitchell did step up for a couple possessions. Both teams were worn down in game 7. It was ugly offensively because of that, especially Murray along with Mitchell. But you're making my point. Mitchell can play good defense, he chooses not to except in small bursts here and there.
Also others did step up offensively at the end of that game, but Mitchell demanded the ball and turned it over multiple times. He should have deferred at that point. Conley for example had just got two assists in a row to tie the game.
LoPo
Well-Known Member
Conley had his hands full with Morris. He didn't slow Murray at all. Remember, the entire series changed when Denver started Morris and put him on Conley. We lost control after that happened.
Don covered Murray pretty much the whole 3rd quarter of Game 7. I think he had a 20 point quarter while also shutting down Murray. In the 4th, he was gassed. Conley was dreadful. He didn't have a bad series, but he didn't have a good one either.
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It’s a good point and the reason why I’ve been pushing for a more sizable trade since the summer. It doesn’t really matter if we sign a really good defender with our 11th roster spot or whatever. We got our *** beat with our main lineups. That’s the root of the problem, and it can’t be solved with having a guy you throw in for 3 minutes.
I’m not sure how much improves if you put on Smart for Royce. Smart is a way better defender IMO, but Conley-Mitchell-Bogey will always be problematic. All three of them have had their moments here and there and are decent in certain situations, but come playoff time that trip is really going to set us back defensive. Smart is great on ball and still pretty good in rotation, but I do think someone like Robert Covington (or at least the idea of him) would help more.
We’re going to get cooked in our 1v1 matchups. It’s inevitable. I think you’ll see more improvement with an elite off ball defender than an elite on ball guy.
Maybe it doesn’t help much at all, but it depends on what we’re giving up. We definitely have an offensive minded guard/wing to spare. If we can find a trade with JC that would be the obvious one, but his value is tanking rapidly.
Honestly, we’ll probably have to throw in a first to make thugs type of trade…but I’m willing to do it. This is the only time I expect us to seriously compete for a ring in the next couple decades so might as well go all in.
How many times did Conley guard Murray and how many times did he score? Morris did have a monster 7 points in game 7... Morris wasn't a big factor. He started game 4 in which he scored 7 and Conley had 26 points and the Jazz won. Game 1 was his best game.
So Mitchell shouldn't have to play defense in the 4th if he played hard in part of the 3rd?
There's a huge difference between not being a good defender but trying and taking many plays off on defense, especially in the playoffs.
Crazy to say Conley was dreadful in that series.
LoPo
Well-Known Member
I'm saying Conley's defense is overrated while also saying Don needs to work more on defense.
I'm also saying we can't get over the 2nd round hump because we lack a good playoff perimeter defender. No Conley doesn't count. No Royce doesn't count.
At least in the playoffs, Don plays like a superstar on one end of the court. Nobody else on our team does.
Go get a premier perimeter defender. That's what I'm asking for.
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We do need a better wing defender, that's fair. I don't think one player solves that much for us though unless he's a legit great two way player. We aren't getting one of those, unless some crazy trade opens. Even then having Gobert and 1 great wing defender doesn't make our defense great, especially when it matters and teams can easily switch. You can't hide players who don't play defense and you can't hide multiple lazy players. Defense requires a team effort.
But I'm all for getting better players. An athletic good sized two way wing would be great!
LoPo
Well-Known Member
I think that Don and Bojan would be fine next to Rudy and Royce if we had a terrific on ball defender with them. And if we still had Conley, that would be even better.
Don
Conley/Royce
Terrific Defender
Bojan
Rudy
The team above is a true contender.
We lack a guy thats going to make an opposing star's life tough for at least 25 minutes a night.
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No we dont. Royce can do that. He's just the only guy who can do that so he's doing 24/7, not 25 minutes a night.
The Jazz arent going to improve their starting or closing 5. The better thing is to just make the in-between lineups better.
Get rid of Clarkson. Insert some kind of wing or guard who can play above average defense while giving averagish offense.
Get rid of Clarkson. Insert some kind of wing or guard who can play above average defense while giving averagish offense.
Garry Harris just makes the most sense to me. He fills a lot of the Jazz's needs.
He expires next year (we know ownership doesnt want to pay a lot of money for this team and Clarkson's deal has an additional year on it). I think Utah will want to make the Clarkson spot a cheaper player for the future.
He has had the reputation of being a good defender. I dont know if that still holds up after his decline, but he did own the every living **** out of Donovan Mitchell on this pivotal game 7 play
He's also playing the best basketball of he has played in a while. The Magic have no reason to keep him. He might have more value as an expiring contract than as a player. I dont think anyone is going to give up that much for him given his sample size of good play is fairly small (he was bad in October/November).
Utah just has to find a 3rd team to give Clarkson to, and that team throws some 2nd rounders at the Magic. The tricky thing is making the $$$ work.
He expires next year (we know ownership doesnt want to pay a lot of money for this team and Clarkson's deal has an additional year on it). I think Utah will want to make the Clarkson spot a cheaper player for the future.
He has had the reputation of being a good defender. I dont know if that still holds up after his decline, but he did own the every living **** out of Donovan Mitchell on this pivotal game 7 play
He's also playing the best basketball of he has played in a while. The Magic have no reason to keep him. He might have more value as an expiring contract than as a player. I dont think anyone is going to give up that much for him given his sample size of good play is fairly small (he was bad in October/November).
Utah just has to find a 3rd team to give Clarkson to, and that team throws some 2nd rounders at the Magic. The tricky thing is making the $$$ work.
Kyle Kuzma would be a fit for the Jazz. He's had some big games lately though, so his price may have gone up.
If you want someone who is 'buy-low,' consider Kevin Porter Jr. It's a gamble, but could work temporarily.
Conley was playing hurt with the nagging hamstring. (Knock on wood) the yoga seema to be making a difference this year.
Conley is more steady on both ends of the court than Don, but Don, when stepping up, is on another level.
To me neither Mike or Don are the problem, but together they are the undersized duo.
Awful idea
Conley isn't a bad defender, but he's small. Bigger guards can just shoot over him. His close-outs on shooters are practically meaningless. He also has to push his body to its limits to defend well, which is why he pulls the hammy sometimes. I think he was pretty good in the Memphis series.
Agreed, he is above average despite his size. I think the hamstring was more about body imbalance and overuse, and I think he may have solved the issue with yoga.
Katastrofica
Well-Known Member
Add undersized royce near this two and u got answer what this ream need..
I've already said the same thing many times, Royce does not add enough positive value for his lack of size paired with Don and Mike. It's like Willow, Megosh and Burglekutt against a team of dikinis.