Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

[HermanG]

I get that but at some point with everyone slobbering over how good Barnes is or Pascal is or OG is… like… how come their team is complete ***.

He’s a good defender, he’s a good shooter (but not great), and all this trade talk assumes he has something magical in his offensive bag that is hidden… he doesn’t. He might get a few more shots but he’s like not all that efficient already.

He’s worth two unprotected picks to a team like Phoenix or Memphis that have big aspirations but the trade value they have placed on his is wild. For us if it was like Ochai and a Cavs/Minny pick that is as far as I’d go… and I’d rather just hang tight.

Have you even followed them or are you giving opinions based on last year? Barnes has had a bad season. Like 0 progress year 2 type of bad.

Their offense is stagnated and their defensive set is a mess. Their whole comcept of no true bigs and big wings with maximum spacing kinda goes to hell when your team shoots 45% from the field (28th) and 33% from 3 (28th).

Siakam 31% and Barnes 30% from 3, which kills their spacing ideas. Opponents know those two wont shoot from deep.. so there is always help in the paint.

OG is actually lifting their shooting and is above team (and NBA) average from 2, 3 and FT.

Surprisingly their rebounding is not good either, so they cannot compensate for the low shooting percentage. And they rank like 26th in assist per game (thanks to that stagnated offense).

Only thing they are good at really is steals and not turning it over. Lead league in both.

 

[fishonjazz]

Have you even followed them or are you giving opinions based on last year? Barnes has had a bad season. Like 0 progress year 2 type of bad.

Their offense is stagnated and their defensive set is a mess. Their whole comcept of no true bigs and big wings with maximum spacing kinda goes to hell when your team shoots 45% from the field (28th) and 33% from 3 (28th).

Siakam 31% and Barnes 30% from 3, which kills their spacing ideas. Opponents know those two wont shoot from deep.. so there is always help in the paint.

OG is actually lifting their shooting and is above team (and NBA) average from 2, 3 and FT.

Surprisingly their rebounding is not good either, so they cannot compensate for the low shooting percentage. And they rank like 26th in assist per game (thanks to that stagnated offense).

Only thing they are good at really is steals and not turning it over. Lead league in both.

I mean HH did say their team is complete ****.
Your post just seems to prove that tbh.

 

[HermanG]

I mean HH did say their team is complete ****.
Your post just seems to prove that tbh.

Yeah I get it but he called out the players being worse than their reputation.. and its not that.

They are the polar opposite of us. They play ugly ball where the team performs worse than the sum of its parts.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Have you even followed them or are you giving opinions based on last year? Barnes has had a bad season. Like 0 progress year 2 type of bad.

Their offense is stagnated and their defensive set is a mess. Their whole comcept of no true bigs and big wings with maximum spacing kinda goes to hell when your team shoots 45% from the field (28th) and 33% from 3 (28th).

Siakam 31% and Barnes 30% from 3, which kills their spacing ideas. Opponents know those two wont shoot from deep.. so there is always help in the paint.

OG is actually lifting their shooting and is above team (and NBA) average from 2, 3 and FT.

Surprisingly their rebounding is not good either, so they cannot compensate for the low shooting percentage. And they rank like 26th in assist per game (thanks to that stagnated offense).

Only thing they are good at really is steals and not turning it over. Lead league in both.

I’ve watched em… it’s a **** show. In that morass you would think a coach who thought a player had more to give would give him that role. He hasn’t… is nurse trying to get fired… I’ve watched OG self create in limited situations and it looks horrible… it’s just not who he is. He is a great 3 and D guy but projecting anything more is complete guesswork. He’s also constantly out with injuries. His current price has this “magic bag” priced in already.

For a team just using him in a 3 and D role that is also a contender… he’s worth two real firsts. Suns Grizz NO maybe would be candidates. The price is supposedly higher than that. For a team in our spot to acquire him reminds me of the Bulls moves or a much lesser version of the wolves. In a year or so maybe we’d be in a better spot to make that move. Right now paying the full premium makes no sense.

I’d pay a first and Ochai but the price seems much higher than that. I’ll wait until the market resets on trade values if I can’t get him at that price. I just think you can find his skill set in the middle part of the first round and if I’m giving 3 picks I want a star under team control for 2+ years at least. I’ll try and find a bridges, Trey Murphy, OG, in the draft first.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yeah I get it but he called out the players being worse than their reputation.. and its not that.

They are the polar opposite of us. They play ugly ball where the team performs worse than the sum of its parts.

I’m saying those parts are over valued… it’s okay to under perform… it’s not okay to be complete dog ****.

 

[checkbookdoc]

I must be much higher on Ochai than most people because I am thrilled with what he has shown and would make him as untouchable as Kessler.
IMO his shot seems legit and he has “popped” athletically on both sides of the ball. He seems to be motivated on defense and offensively has made some better passes than I expected and shown good cutting/one dribble-drive ability. At this point, I am convinced he is an NBA rotation player at worst and expect he will be much better.
He probably won’t be a first, second, or third option on offense, but could be an awesome 4th that spreads the floor and provides efficient scoring on 12 points a game and good defense. That is not a piece you give up on as a rookie.

 

[Coach Ellis]

I must be much higher on Ochai than most people because I am thrilled with what he has shown and would make him as untouchable as Kessler.
IMO his shot seems legit and he has “popped” athletically on both sides of the ball. He seems to be motivated on defense and offensively has made some better passes than I expected and shown good cutting/one dribble-drive ability. At this point, I am convinced he is an NBA rotation player at worst and expect he will be much better.
He probably won’t be a first, second, or third option on offense, but could be an awesome 4th that spreads the floor and provides efficient scoring on 12 points a game and good defense. That is not a piece you give up on as a rookie.

Agreed. I’d much rather keep Agbaji and see how he develops. He’s shown me enough to make me excited about his potential as a rotational piece.

 

[underdog]

I mean HH did say their team is complete ****.
Your post just seems to prove that tbh.

“A team is not good” doesn’t mean “No player in that team is good”. Two different things.

 

[underdog]

Agreed. I’d much rather keep Agbaji and see how he develops. He’s shown me enough to make me excited about his potential as a rotational piece.

Sure. I woudn't like to see Agbaji traded. We need to see more of him.

 

[fishonjazz]

I must be much higher on Ochai than most people because I am thrilled with what he has shown and would make him as untouchable as Kessler.
IMO his shot seems legit and he has “popped” athletically on both sides of the ball. He seems to be motivated on defense and offensively has made some better passes than I expected and shown good cutting/one dribble-drive ability. At this point, I am convinced he is an NBA rotation player at worst and expect he will be much better.
He probably won’t be a first, second, or third option on offense, but could be an awesome 4th that spreads the floor and provides efficient scoring on 12 points a game and good defense. That is not a piece you give up on as a rookie.

I love Ochai

 

[Elizah Huge]

I think Ochai is a favorite around here. He is nowhere near as untouchable as Kessler though.

 

[HermanG]

I’ve watched em… it’s a **** show. In that morass you would think a coach who thought a player had more to give would give him that role. He hasn’t… is nurse trying to get fired… I’ve watched OG self create in limited situations and it looks horrible… it’s just not who he is. He is a great 3 and D guy but projecting anything more is complete guesswork. He’s also constantly out with injuries. His current price has this “magic bag” priced in already.

For a team just using him in a 3 and D role that is also a contender… he’s worth two real firsts. Suns Grizz NO maybe would be candidates. The price is supposedly higher than that. For a team in our spot to acquire him reminds me of the Bulls moves or a much lesser version of the wolves. In a year or so maybe we’d be in a better spot to make that move. Right now paying the full premium makes no sense.

I’d pay a first and Ochai but the price seems much higher than that. I’ll wait until the market resets on trade values if I can’t get him at that price. I just think you can find his skill set in the middle part of the first round and if I’m giving 3 picks I want a star under team control for 2+ years at least. I’ll try and find a bridges, Trey Murphy, OG, in the draft first.

You can find his skillset but you have to develop that guy 3 years before he may or may not reach the upside you imagine he has.

What percentage of drafted 3&D guys become even legit NBA starters... let alone guys in DPOY conversation?

Your road is a lot more risky. I would rather pay the premium for a player who is developed and proven.. and exactly the same age as out star.

However for the record the discussion of "paying FRPs" is very unfruitful if no one defines which picks they are. I never suggested 3 picks clean (i had a player + pick package worth 3 late FRP but only containing one actual pick).. and only way I would pay 3 clean would be Brooklyn pick + 2 lottery protected picks (one 2025 and one later).

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

You can find his skillset but you have to develop that guy 3 years before he may or may not reach the upside you imagine he has.

What percentage of drafted 3&D guys become even legit NBA starters... let alone guys in DPOY conversation?

Your road is a lot more risky. I would rather pay the premium for a player who is developed and proven.. and exactly the same age as out star.

However for the record the discussion of "paying FRPs" is very unfruitful if no one defines which picks they are. I never suggested 3 picks clean (i had a player + pick package worth 3 late FRP but only containing one actual pick).. and only way I would pay 3 clean would be Brooklyn pick + 2 lottery protected picks (one 2025 and one later).

We have to take some swings… so risky doesn’t bother me at all. If you hit on a drafted 3 and D wing you get like a minimum of 7 years of team control… I’d rather take a few swings on those types in the draft than put those picks in for a little over a year of team control. He’s not in the DPOY convo. He’s good… their defense isn’t… their offense isn’t… he is t completely at fault obviously but if they have other competent defenders around him (and they do) then shouldn’t the DPOY prop those guys up? He’s likely on an all defense team but I’d have like 5-6 guys ahead of him.

My issue is also that you can find guys that give you 75-80% of what OG does at a lower price… we aren’t at a spot where they extra 20% is worth paying a premium for…

And lol at the price you quoted… they were offered three protected pick by the Knicks (pretty obvious who that report was) and yet OG is not a Knick… so your package of like the 28th pick and two protected picks also won’t cut the mustard. The minimum it would cost us imo (this is Ujiri we are dealing with) is one unprotected pick that we own, the Brooklyn pick, and Ochai… likely Beasley is the salary match but might sneak in THT. That would be the minimum… I’m sure they push for two unprotected picks. If OG moves I think it will be the Suns Grizz or Warriors putting up two unprotected picks… maybe the Heat.

So if you are advocating for a trade for OG… realize the cost is going to hurt… then ask if you’d rather live with a Josh Hart or someone in that mold instead… while saving the assets for someone else. That’s the path I very much prefer or just wait on Ochai and wait on the draft.

If a guy like Bridges became available I’d likely push in for him but he’s in a different tier than OG for me.

 

[framer]

I must be much higher on Ochai than most people because I am thrilled with what he has shown and would make him as untouchable as Kessler.
IMO his shot seems legit and he has “popped” athletically on both sides of the ball. He seems to be motivated on defense and offensively has made some better passes than I expected and shown good cutting/one dribble-drive ability. At this point, I am convinced he is an NBA rotation player at worst and expect he will be much better.
He probably won’t be a first, second, or third option on offense, but could be an awesome 4th that spreads the floor and provides efficient scoring on 12 points a game and good defense. That is not a piece you give up on as a rookie.

He could probably give you 12 points a game as a starter right now. I'm not saying we should do that, but this is a low bar to climb.

 

[HeatCheck]

Would you guys trade Sexton to Dallas for Bertans' contract + '25 FRP?

Could Mavs Pursue Trade For Jazz Guard Collin Sexton?

The Dallas Mavericks are one of the teams being watched closely ahead of the NBA trade deadline. Could they make a move for Utah Jazz guard Collin Sexton?

www.si.com

According to rumors Dallas tried to get Sexton in a s&t last summer after they lost Brunson but were over the tax apron and didn't have any players Cleveland wanted.
Bertans' contract is ugly for a guy who never gets off their bench.
Would Ainge help Dallas by sending them a young player that fits next to Luka and also fits his timeline or should he not even worry about Dallas at this juncture?
I really like Sexton, he's improving on both ends in Hardy's system, but he's a guy who maybe only reaches his potential next to a big playmaker and the Jazz don't have that archetype on their roster.

It's obvious Ainge wants to add FRP's but the options are limited esp if Beasley, Vando, Conley, JC don't have that type of value due to age, skillset, upcoming FA, etc. Sending useful players to Mia or Dallas for bad contracts (Bertans, Robinson) might be the best path to add FRP's. If Sexton keeps improving this season maybe Ainge gets a better haul during the offseason without taking on a bad contract like Bertans?

 

[Shad]

NO TO BERTANS. PEOPLE ALREADY COMPLAIN ABOUT GAY BEING BAD. HAVE A LOOK AT BERTANS STATS AND CONTRACT

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Would you guys trade Sexton to Dallas for Bertans' contract + '25 FRP?

Could Mavs Pursue Trade For Jazz Guard Collin Sexton?

The Dallas Mavericks are one of the teams being watched closely ahead of the NBA trade deadline. Could they make a move for Utah Jazz guard Collin Sexton?

www.si.com

According to rumors Dallas tried to get Sexton in a s&t last summer after they lost Brunson but were over the tax apron and didn't have any players Cleveland wanted.
Bertans' contract is ugly for a guy who never gets off their bench.
Would Ainge help Dallas by sending them a young player that fits next to Luka and also fits his timeline or should he not even worry about Dallas at this juncture?
I really like Sexton, he's improving on both ends in Hardy's system, but he's a guy who maybe only reaches his potential next to a big playmaker and the Jazz don't have that archetype on their roster.

It's obvious Ainge wants to add FRP's but the options are limited esp if Beasley, Vando, Conley, JC don't have that type of value due to age, skillset, upcoming FA, etc. Sending useful players to Mia or Dallas for bad contracts (Bertans, Robinson) might be the best path to add FRP's. If Sexton keeps improving this season maybe Ainge gets a better haul during the offseason without taking on a bad contract like Bertans?

Nah… I’d think for a minute if it was completely unprotected but nah.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Would you guys trade Sexton to Dallas for Bertans' contract + '25 FRP?

Could Mavs Pursue Trade For Jazz Guard Collin Sexton?

The Dallas Mavericks are one of the teams being watched closely ahead of the NBA trade deadline. Could they make a move for Utah Jazz guard Collin Sexton?

www.si.com

According to rumors Dallas tried to get Sexton in a s&t last summer after they lost Brunson but were over the tax apron and didn't have any players Cleveland wanted.
Bertans' contract is ugly for a guy who never gets off their bench.
Would Ainge help Dallas by sending them a young player that fits next to Luka and also fits his timeline or should he not even worry about Dallas at this juncture?
I really like Sexton, he's improving on both ends in Hardy's system, but he's a guy who maybe only reaches his potential next to a big playmaker and the Jazz don't have that archetype on their roster.

It's obvious Ainge wants to add FRP's but the options are limited esp if Beasley, Vando, Conley, JC don't have that type of value due to age, skillset, upcoming FA, etc. Sending useful players to Mia or Dallas for bad contracts (Bertans, Robinson) might be the best path to add FRP's. If Sexton keeps improving this season maybe Ainge gets a better haul during the offseason without taking on a bad contract like Bertans?

If it's unprotected I do it in a heart beat.

 

[kabenac]

I love Ochai

And he loves you!

Dude is shooting 48% and 38% as a rookie. Trading JC for picks in a trade that makes sense = Sexton and Ochai getirng more minutes = fine with me.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

I’ll get blasted for this but I think Agbaji has a chance to be an allstar, has the talent athleticism and shooting to do so. He’s usually the most athletic player on the court just like Kawhi Leonard. Not comparing their games just athleticism. No one saw Leonard as anything close to an allstar, but here we are. Just a matter of him getting there and the coaching staff believing in him and having patience.