Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I think they are committed to the Zion is a pg kinda and CJ is a pg kinda model. I'm not sure its ideal but we haven't seen healthy Zion/BI/CJ... if they were flanked by Trey and OG I think its likely pretty effective.

I just dont see the logic in adding OG when there is 0% chance they can afford to keep him. They will want to keep the cheap contracts like Herb until they have to flip for value. OG is also going to be buried even more from a touches/shots perspective with that NOLA group than he is the Raptors. IMO if you're trading for OG you should be ready to maximize him and see if he's capable of making another leap in his game, not trading him to play a possibly even lesser role than he currently is.

Think the answer for NOLA is improving the depth so they have more options for lineups.

 

[KqWIN]

Did you watch the game last night? Toronto needs to change from the "big forwards that can defend but can't shoot" model. Project 6'9" is a fail.

For NO they need shooting so swapping Herb (27% from 3 this year) for OG is awesome.

I think Herb is guy TOR should be all over Herb because he's a really good young player who they have control over the contract. I can't think of reason why TOR would not want Herb as much or more as UTA, for example, so I have a hard time seeing Herb end up in UTA. If he's in the trade, I think TOR is going to want him. And it's not like TOR is going to have a sudden realization and completely abandon their scouting/preference on player types.

Feel free to talk yourself into this one, but I don't see Herb as an option for UTA.

 

[Coach Ellis]

I just dont see the logic in adding OG when there is 0% chance they can afford to keep him. They will want to keep the cheap contracts like Herb until they have to flip for value. OG is also going to be buried even more from a touches/shots perspective with that NOLA group than he is the Raptors. IMO if you're trading for OG you should be ready to maximize him and see if he's capable of making another leap in his game, not trading him to play a possibly even lesser role than he currently is.

Think the answer for NOLA is improving the depth so they have more options for lineups.

I think Cy is dead on for the Pels. Unless they move CJ in a deal for a 3rd star, I think they’re looking for specific role players. Problem is that their stars are all injury prone.

 

[hgb]

I just dont see the logic in adding OG when there is 0% chance they can afford to keep him. They will want to keep the cheap contracts like Herb until they have to flip for value. OG is also going to be buried even more from a touches/shots perspective with that NOLA group than he is the Raptors. IMO if you're trading for OG you should be ready to maximize him and see if he's capable of making another leap in his game, not trading him to play a possibly even lesser role than he currently is.

Think the answer for NOLA is improving the depth so they have more options for lineups.

I agree to an extent, but Herb is only cheap this season and next, and you get less value for someone who'll be a free agent in less than a year, so if they want to get max back, it's now. I guess they can't really extend him since he's on <$2M now, so they will have to wait for free agency. I think they are more likely to cash in on Herb than on Dyson (who's cheap for three more years after this).

 

[fishonjazz]

Heat interested in KO apparently. I just think Duncan Robinson is going to be a Jazzman at some point here and we all need to be cool with it. We can fix him... it will be a comeback/redemption story for the ages.

But how would we get by without Olynyks (checks box score from last night) 2 points on 1-5 shooting and 4 rebounds in 20 minutes though!?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think Herb is guy TOR should be all over Herb because he's a really good young player who they have control over the contract. I can't think of reason why TOR would not want Herb as much or more as UTA, for example, so I have a hard time seeing Herb end up in UTA. If he's in the trade, I think TOR is going to want him. And it's not like TOR is going to have a sudden realization and completely abandon their scouting/preference on player types.

Feel free to talk yourself into this one, but I don't see Herb as an option for UTA.

I just think if they are sitting there going "we have Pascal and Barnes... Herb is nice but how is that fit? Would we rather have an unprotected first instead?"

I also stated they very well may want to keep him... but its not like a pipe dream imo... low likelihood of happening.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I agree to an extent, but Herb is only cheap this season and next, and you get less value for someone who'll be a free agent in less than a year, so if they want to get max back, it's now. I guess they can't really extend him since he's on <$2M now, so they will have to wait for free agency. I think they are more likely to cash in on Herb than on Dyson (who's cheap for three more years after this).

They can extend him this summer.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

I think Duncan also got yanked around with playing time and role. I think he is a much better player than Bertans. I just think Herro kinda took the running off screen actions from Duncan and he lost his confidence/rhythm and never got it back. he will never be worth his contract, but I think in a consistent bench role he could be effective for 20-25 minutes. The pick is the big thing... just aren't a lot of salary dump trades out there these days and that is the real prize.

Robinson is an absolutely terrible defender. He's never been able to hold his own out on the perimeter.

He made his name moving non stop off the ball and making shots. That's it.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I agree to an extent, but Herb is only cheap this season and next, and you get less value for someone who'll be a free agent in less than a year, so if they want to get max back, it's now. I guess they can't really extend him since he's on <$2M now, so they will have to wait for free agency. I think they are more likely to cash in on Herb than on Dyson (who's cheap for three more years after this).

He's going to be a RFA bud, that's HUGE value on the last year.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

But how would we get by without Olynyks (checks box score from last night) 2 points on 1-5 shooting and 4 rebounds in 20 minutes though!?

Please don't show this to teams inquiring on KO. TIA

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Yeah, I think KO's value has died down with his injury. He's one of those dudes with an injury history so any kind of injury that is shown to hamper him is going to make teams question him.

 

[idiot]

I don't think NO gets this desperate... but I wonder if Daniels or Herb Jones could be available if we took Grahamn and maybe gave them the Philly pick with Beasley? I think they are high on both guys but both will get squeezed for minutes when Zion is back and long term I don't know how they keep all their guys.

Pelicans (probably): "Can I interest you in Naji Marshall, instead?"

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Robinson is an absolutely terrible defender. He's never been able to hold his own out on the perimeter.

He made his name moving non stop off the ball and making shots. That's it.

Beasley is bad too. I think they stopped running as many actions for Duncan and it contributed to his slide. If he was still shooting the ball as well as he was then he wouldn't be viewed as super duper negative. I think he can capture some of that back and in 20 minutes a night for a non-contender he is just fine. In the finals and conference finals he may not be playable.

He's more valuable than Bertans for me... because he gets his shots on the move and those actions could be something nice for us. Malik can put the ball on the ground and side step better. There is also value in having Duncan out there as guys won't leave him. He's not an 18M player at all... but could he get back to being an 8-10M type player? Does the pick make up enough value for that difference?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Pelicans (probably): "Can I interest you in Naji Marshall, instead?"

yeah and that is how I'd view it if I was them. I only see Jones as (maybe) shaking loose if there is a big three team deal.

 

[KqWIN]

I just think if they are sitting there going "we have Pascal and Barnes... Herb is nice but how is that fit? Would we rather have an unprotected first instead?"

I also stated they very well may want to keep him... but its not like a pipe dream imo... low likelihood of happening.

I like Jalen McDaniels better as a target for realism/price point.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I like Jalen McDaniels better as a target for realism/price point.

Yeah I can see that... the issue is he is unrestricted. Not sure if Hornet haven't offered him an extension or if he has bigger eyes than what they can offer. If you could lock him into an extension (he's eligible) at 4 years 40-50M I'd send the Philly pick for him. If he won't play ball on an extension I'd do Vando for him.

Not sure what Hornets price is. I also know somehow we would come out of the trade with Plumlee and that means we would have lost the trade per the Zeller Plumlee law of trades. @infection notified.

 

[KqWIN]

Yeah I can see that... the issue is he is unrestricted. Not sure if Hornet haven't offered him an extension or if he has bigger eyes than what they can offer. If you could lock him into an extension (he's eligible) at 4 years 40-50M I'd send the Philly pick for him. If he won't play ball on an extension I'd do Vando for him.

Not sure what Hornets price is. I also know somehow we would come out of the trade with Plumlee and that means we would have lost the trade per the Zeller Plumlee law of trades. @infection notified.

I wonder how Olynyk factors into the Zeller/Plumlee laws, but McDaniels is someone I'm hoping we could get with Kelly. Vando, I'm not sure if I would do. It's hard to peg his value with upcoming FA but super late first/early second (Philly pick makes some sense here) is where I have him at but maybe that's where Vando is at too.

I feel like Vando has higher stock than McDaniels and his contract situation is more preferable with one more year left....but maybe that has changed with Vando's somewhat underwhelming season.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Watching the Raptors yesterday.. I dont really see anyone who I absolutely would love to have who is on the block.. but is there someone hidden who could be a fit?

OG would be my top choice if it wasnt for his contract and the apparent bidding war for his services. Obviously they missed him a lot yesterday.. rare to see a team play with such high effort and still suck so bad defensively.

I bet they are selling at high prices though.

Oh, there is a ton out of Toronto that I would want. Especially after watching them play I'm convinced they are hoarding a ton of the players that everyone should want. Having that type of player doesn't work when it's all you have, but they could make other teams great. They just aren't balanced at all, and maybe some of their players aren't really learning how to play NBA basketball.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I wonder how Olynyk factors into the Zeller/Plumlee laws, but McDaniels is someone I'm hoping we could get with Kelly. Vando, I'm not sure if I would do. It's hard to peg his value with upcoming FA but super late first/early second (Philly pick makes some sense here) is where I have him at but maybe that's where Vando is at too.

I feel like Vando has higher stock than McDaniels and his contract situation is more preferable with one more year left....but maybe that has changed with Vando's somewhat underwhelming season.

I do think its a strange pickle for the Hornets... PJ, Kelly Oubre, McDaniels, and maybe Bridges all looking for contracts. Obviously you can sign a ton of wings and no big deal cuz you will work it out later... its just a pickle. So I could see Vando for Jalen straight up being a nice deal for them to take one negotiation off the table. Its also a pretty low power FO and I'm sure a couple of those guys would love to get out.

I think Vando for McDaniels is pretty damn close to a straight up value for value deal. Both likely worth more than some seconds... both not quite worth a first on their own.

If we end up taking Plumlee we will lose the deal. Even though he is playing really well... so you need to spin him off to a third team immediately. Don't fight the rules of science.

 

[idiot]

Can someone please explain what we see in McDaniels? By the stats test, he generally falls short of Vanderbilt (also more than a year older). Sure, he'll shoot more 3s, but he doesn't make them at a particularly good rate. Do we think he's the same caliber defender as his brother is?