Thanks for this insight. It's what I was looking for.
Turkey rounds up 37,500 educators and bans all educators from traveling abroad
- Thread starter str8line
- Start date
Thanks for this insight. It's what I was looking for.
RandyForRubio
Well-Known Member
Most missionaries are in unsafe situations.
On a personal note, I have a friend living in Turkey as a missionary. Hope he's ok.
addictionary
Well-Known Member
What city is he in?
RandyForRubio
Well-Known Member
They ask us not to say for safety reasons. Sorry.
addictionary
Well-Known Member
No problem.
addictionary
Well-Known Member
Asked to say if he is in Izmir he can relax about it. If it is Ankara or Istanbul those are the cities that were hit.
Miggs
Well-Known Member
Colton negged me for this saying my words were hateful. Seriously? ROFL. Jesus, I've been on this board for almost a decade and I think my tongue in cheek tone here was obvious.
Hello guys, I am following the forum since memo area. But only just doing kibitzing that is all.
Here, I just wanna add some points to the post of addictionary. First of all, this sect (or organization) called Gulen sect is really dangerous, far more dangerous than Erdogan. They started infiltrating into the government, law and military in late 1980s. They have done this through providing good education to bright kids, and the schools establised by them is really exceptional I have to admit that. But the problem is that their aim was not only education, but raising kids for their usage. After finishing their eduation, these kids apply for the position in critical areas of the country (at first mainly law and military). I remember the news from 90s about Gulen Sect and their organisation in the state, especially dissatisfaction in military. Because of the pressure and fear to be arrested, Gulen took refugee in US in 1996 (not sure about exact date) and living in US since then. Even though he had good relationships with politicians, law and military mainly composed of secular (kemalist) people, and they wanted to take action against Gulen at that time.
After that Erdogan's time came (at the perfect time honestly, after economic crisis and instability all that), and this sect and Erdogan worked together for a long time. In that period, they did try to get rid of secular people in law and military, and they succeeded mostly. (To be fair, I dont like what this secular bureaucracy did for many years. They tried to suppress conservative people, and they are one of the reasons why Erdogan has this big support.) In that first years, Erdogan seemed to be a real democrat and value rights of the people. Now, we all know it was an act and fear of these secular opposition (like ironically a possible coup attempt by the army). After getting rid of this opposition, we started to see real face of Erdogan. I am not really sure what happened after that, but a power struggle between Gulen sect and Erdogan has started. As you all see the last incident. I dont believe it but it may be Gulen and Erdogan working together. Until after coup attempt, most of the people did not know that this sect has this much of power. But now the government and all media are trying to atone their sins to the secular opposition who they have judged and jailed.
About this being a theater played by Erdogan, I do not believe it. A governmental organisation which lacks ideology and faith (what keeps Erdogan's party together is mutual interest and/or money), cannot convince hundreds of people into this. At the end, there are only death or being in prison for the rest of their lives.
About being a lot of people in custody, you should keep in mind that this sect has a lot of people in education as well. They even have universities. I am not advocating about rounding about so many educators, but I could understand why they are doing this. You should keep in mind that it is after coup attempt, so it is not really an usual time. But we will see what direction this will lead to. But I do not think that secularism is in danger in Turkey.
The last thing I wanna point out the reaction of US government. The head of Gulen Sect, Fethullah Gulen, is living in US for 20 years, and there are now some statements (mainly from US army) about after coup, they have lost their allies in Turkish army and this will effect their struggle with ISIS. After rejection of participating in Iraq war by Turkish parliament, relationship between turkish and us governments have not been really the best. Furthermore, right now there are some claims about Gulen Sect proving financial support to the democrats. If you look at Enes Kanter's twitter (as a member of this sect), you can see that support. Recently, they have opened up a school in Los Angeles inside a military base (of course if the news is correct). All of this increase some suspicion in US role in this coup attempt. Historically, US governments are capable of doing that as we all saw in central and south america. I am not totally sold on that but some of people in Turkey are thinking that way.
As addictionary said, it really defects people. I was not in the country, but it must be horrifying to see and hear war jets flying at close distance. And the things are happening after that. The most frustrating thing is that we do not know for sure what is happening and cannot be sure about our future.
Here, I just wanna add some points to the post of addictionary. First of all, this sect (or organization) called Gulen sect is really dangerous, far more dangerous than Erdogan. They started infiltrating into the government, law and military in late 1980s. They have done this through providing good education to bright kids, and the schools establised by them is really exceptional I have to admit that. But the problem is that their aim was not only education, but raising kids for their usage. After finishing their eduation, these kids apply for the position in critical areas of the country (at first mainly law and military). I remember the news from 90s about Gulen Sect and their organisation in the state, especially dissatisfaction in military. Because of the pressure and fear to be arrested, Gulen took refugee in US in 1996 (not sure about exact date) and living in US since then. Even though he had good relationships with politicians, law and military mainly composed of secular (kemalist) people, and they wanted to take action against Gulen at that time.
After that Erdogan's time came (at the perfect time honestly, after economic crisis and instability all that), and this sect and Erdogan worked together for a long time. In that period, they did try to get rid of secular people in law and military, and they succeeded mostly. (To be fair, I dont like what this secular bureaucracy did for many years. They tried to suppress conservative people, and they are one of the reasons why Erdogan has this big support.) In that first years, Erdogan seemed to be a real democrat and value rights of the people. Now, we all know it was an act and fear of these secular opposition (like ironically a possible coup attempt by the army). After getting rid of this opposition, we started to see real face of Erdogan. I am not really sure what happened after that, but a power struggle between Gulen sect and Erdogan has started. As you all see the last incident. I dont believe it but it may be Gulen and Erdogan working together. Until after coup attempt, most of the people did not know that this sect has this much of power. But now the government and all media are trying to atone their sins to the secular opposition who they have judged and jailed.
About this being a theater played by Erdogan, I do not believe it. A governmental organisation which lacks ideology and faith (what keeps Erdogan's party together is mutual interest and/or money), cannot convince hundreds of people into this. At the end, there are only death or being in prison for the rest of their lives.
About being a lot of people in custody, you should keep in mind that this sect has a lot of people in education as well. They even have universities. I am not advocating about rounding about so many educators, but I could understand why they are doing this. You should keep in mind that it is after coup attempt, so it is not really an usual time. But we will see what direction this will lead to. But I do not think that secularism is in danger in Turkey.
The last thing I wanna point out the reaction of US government. The head of Gulen Sect, Fethullah Gulen, is living in US for 20 years, and there are now some statements (mainly from US army) about after coup, they have lost their allies in Turkish army and this will effect their struggle with ISIS. After rejection of participating in Iraq war by Turkish parliament, relationship between turkish and us governments have not been really the best. Furthermore, right now there are some claims about Gulen Sect proving financial support to the democrats. If you look at Enes Kanter's twitter (as a member of this sect), you can see that support. Recently, they have opened up a school in Los Angeles inside a military base (of course if the news is correct). All of this increase some suspicion in US role in this coup attempt. Historically, US governments are capable of doing that as we all saw in central and south america. I am not totally sold on that but some of people in Turkey are thinking that way.
As addictionary said, it really defects people. I was not in the country, but it must be horrifying to see and hear war jets flying at close distance. And the things are happening after that. The most frustrating thing is that we do not know for sure what is happening and cannot be sure about our future.
OK, I apologize if that was tongue in cheek. Wasn't obvious to me, nor to another (nonLDS) poster who also thought it was quite rude.
addictionary
Well-Known Member
Colton negs people? That' not very Mormon. Jk
Miggs
Well-Known Member
Colton negs people? That' not very Mormon. Jk
Exactly!
Miggs
Well-Known Member
That person also misinterpreted it then, dude. Seriously. C'mon man. I'm pretty transparent.
The LDS Church does not put it's "young volunteers" in dangerous situations because the parents at home expect their kids' safe return. They are not paid, it is voluntary service, and the ordinary expectation is that they will be pulled out if things get dangerous.
I don't blame Colton for being a little defensive of this practice. The LDS maintain a non-political stance worldwide. Other branches of LDS workers maintain humanitarian services like airlifting food and medicine to people affected by calamities, and do so under somewhat more challenging circumstances, but the political neutrality is considered in situations where there is political unrest that might make the activity look partisan.
I don't blame Colton for being a little defensive of this practice. The LDS maintain a non-political stance worldwide. Other branches of LDS workers maintain humanitarian services like airlifting food and medicine to people affected by calamities, and do so under somewhat more challenging circumstances, but the political neutrality is considered in situations where there is political unrest that might make the activity look partisan.
I am concerned that this situation calls for another kind of volunteer. I've belonged to Amnesty International, I think I'm gonna sign up again. This has got to have them swamped with needs. Hey, you get to write letters to dictators and corrupt politicians all over the world, not just to Obama and Hillary.
Miggs
Well-Known Member
My dad lived in Izmir the first two years of his life. Beautiful from the little he remembers and his mom told.
addictionary
Well-Known Member
Was your grandpa by any chance a NATO soldier? My Grandpa served in NATO establishment in Izmir back in the day as the organizer of house finding for soldiers of the organization. Maybe they knew each other
fishonjazz
Well-Known Member
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Miggs
Well-Known Member
Was your grandpa by any chance a NATO soldier? My Grandpa served in NATO establishment in Izmir back in the day as the organizer of house finding for soldiers of the organization. Maybe they knew each other
He was in the U.S. Army and stationed there after WW2 I believe.
addictionary
Well-Known Member
If he stayed in the late 1940's then no dice. My grandpa worked in there in the 50's at earliest iirc.
Miggs
Well-Known Member
It was probably around late 1948 to late 1950 or thereabouts.