Udunka bout to get some-Today 1:00 PM

[Handlogten's Heros]

Since your definition of "functional" seems to be "does not have two broken legs, and can be slotted into the center position if the coach so chooses", I will grant you that we have some 15 functional centers on our roster alone, and it is indeed the easiest position to fill.

Well please go on and tell me what a functional backup center looks like then. I love when people use the “people I’ve it” argument and you do more than prove it and they are like “meh those guis is stoopid”.

Is there a section of JazzFanz for casuals or tweens cuz I think that might be the place for you. I ain’t wasting another brain cell on this argument.

 

[homeytennis]

Stars lost pretty soundly today and are eliminated from the GLeague playoffs. The good news is that Elijah Hughes fueled a fourth quarter comeback with 15 points in about 9 minutes and got the Stars to within four before he and the Stars ran out of gas, Hughes was dreadful until that point. Romaro Gill (7'2" dude from Seton Hall) had 5 blocks in 11 minutes of PT. No Brantley or Forrest.

 

[slc]

Any news on Udoka
How is he doing / what is timeline for return etc

 

[DasJazz]

I'd like to see Udoka and Favors help run the 2nd unit when Udoka gets healthy.

Ingles, Niang/Oni, Clarkson, Favors, Udoka.

Favors can shoot from midrange consistently enough to make this work.

 

[sip]

And the g league is a great tool for a year tops. Spend multiple years down there and it can be counterproductive. It helps get familiar with the system and gets a few reps but you need to get reps with and against real nba talent.

The crazy thing about the gleague is that it really is only a short term tool. You see a lot of players go to the gleague initially and play real well but then you see a lot of those guys down there a few years later and they have regressed. I view it more as a place to get guys in game shape than actually a place to develop because how guys play down there is not how they will be used in the nba.

 

[sip]

I'd like to see Udoka and Favors help run the 2nd unit when Udoka gets healthy.

Ingles, Niang/Oni, Clarkson, Favors, Udoka.

Favors can shoot from midrange consistently enough to make this work.

You can't have Udoka and Favors on the court together. That completely changes the way we want to play. As long as Gobert and Favors are healthy there are nothing but garage minutes left for Udoka.

 

[DasJazz]

You can't have Udoka and Favors on the court together. That completely changes the way we want to play. As long as Gobert and Favors are healthy there are nothing but garage minutes left for Udoka.

Udoka is a defensive anchor, Favors has a midrange game no reason it can't work.

 

[Rubashov]

The crazy thing about the gleague is that it really is only a short term tool. You see a lot of players go to the gleague initially and play real well but then you see a lot of those guys down there a few years later and they have regressed. I view it more as a place to get guys in game shape than actually a place to develop because how guys play down there is not how they will be used in the nba.

Guys are better off going to Europe and playing at a high level there

 

[sip]

Udoka is a defensive anchor, Favors has a midrange game no reason it can't work.

Favors doesn't have much of a midrange game and our offense is built around spacing. Put Udoka and Favors out there together and suddenly Clarkson has no room to operate. The reason our bench is so great is because of the spacing and shooting that we have. Also we have no idea if Udoka's defense will even translate to the nba. We have seen a ton of really good defensive bigs in college that just don't work out in the nba. I would put more money on that being the case with Udoka than him being a defensive anchor.

 

[homeytennis]

No word on Dok's condition. I doubt we will see him before Summer League.

 

[jom2003]

What about the center we played last night? He scored 30+ on us without breaking a sweat. He looked like Joker after joining Jenny Craig. I’m just grateful the rest of his team sucked. If he had Murray and Barton, we could’ve been in trouble last night in Orlando.

I guess he doesn’t count as he was drafted before #20 at #16

1, Vuce already averaged 13pts a game in Orlando on his second season.

2, it took Vuce a move away from Philadelphia to get his playing time and chance to develop. Much like Jermaine O'neil getting out of Portland and Jusuf Nurkic getting out of Denver to find their spot in the league.

Udoka could one day become a solid backup or even a starting caliber center in the league one day, but it may take him a move away from Utah to do it. Simply not a good situation for him over here right now. just hope that it won't cost us another draft pick when it happens.

 

[fishonjazz]

Udoka is a defensive anchor, Favors has a midrange game no reason it can't work.

Two non shooting bigs playing together doesn't work very well. Favors isn't a shooting big and no team out there is scared of favors shooting from the mid range even if he is good at it. Opponents would love for favors taking mid range shots to be more of a part of our offense.

 

[DasJazz]

Two non shooting bigs playing together doesn't work very well. Favors isn't a shooting big and no team out there is scared of favors shooting from the mid range even if he is good at it. Opponents would love for favors taking mid range shots to be more of a part of our offense.

I still think it could work in the limited minutes they would be on the floor. And if defenses want to sag off of Favors I think he's good enough to make them pay more often than not.

 

[One Brow]

You're right, Jokic, Jarrett Allen, 'Trez, Thomas Bryant, and more are not even functional.

The offered definition was "that he is functional and plays back-up center", regardless of any examples. I mean, by that definition, the much-maligned Tony Bradley is a functional backup center.

I mean, if you want to have a discussion on examples, we can. Which are your examples were a good backup as a rookie? I only asked for one.

Let's flip this around; who are the centers that took two or more years to develop into functional backups and we'll compare lists.

Firstly, "backup" was an addition by Handlogten's Heros.

I wasn't sure where to start, so I want to wikipedia and looked up the 2016 draft. Starting at 20, most were washes (as is typical for any position), but Zubac is an example of someone who seemed to improve after 3-4 years.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Any news on Udoka
How is he doing / what is timeline for return etc

His time table is about 3 years away from seeing any playing time.

 

[One Brow]

Well please go on and tell me what a functional backup center looks like then. I love when people use the “people I’ve it” argument and you do more than prove it and they are like “meh those guis is stoopid”.

Is there a section of JazzFanz for casuals or tweens cuz I think that might be the place for you. I ain’t wasting another brain cell on this argument.

A functional backup center should, at the very least, help his team more than he hurts it. If the team can (possibly somewhat less) successfully maintain the same style of defense and offense, or (less ideally) if they can change the game and dominate other backup centers, they are functional.

By the definition you gave, Tony Bradley was a functional back-up center. I agree that players of the caliber of Tony Bradly are easy to find, and would say that is true of any position. It's only at center they seem to find time, which is more of an indication of a lack of talent at that position, rather than an excess.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

A functional backup center should, at the very least, help his team more than he hurts it. If the team can (possibly somewhat less) successfully maintain the same style of defense and offense, or (less ideally) if they can change the game and dominate other backup centers, they are functional.

By the definition you gave, Tony Bradley was a functional back-up center. I agree that players of the caliber of Tony Bradly are easy to find, and would say that is true of any position. It's only at center they seem to find time, which is more of an indication of a lack of talent at that position, rather than an excess.

I never gave a definition of a functional backup... I gave examples... all of those guys were several tiers better than Tony ****ing Bradley. Tony isn't a functional backup... its why we paid someone to take his meager salary.

I get it though... when you are clearly wrong you throw some words in peoples mouths... set up a few straw men... move a few targets and then give it another go.

 

[One Brow]

I never gave a definition of a functional backup... I gave examples... all of those guys were several tiers better than Tony ****ing Bradley. Tony isn't a functional backup... its why we paid someone to take his meager salary.

I get it though... when you are clearly wrong you throw some words in peoples mouths... set up a few straw men... move a few targets and then give it another go.

Actually, I get the idea of knowing by example instead of knowing by definition. To be clear, did you offer all of these examples as people who didn't have a longish period of development, but were basically near the top of their game by, say, year 3? I wouldn't want to misconstrue you again.

BTW, you did just say someone who used an exact quote from you as "throw some words in peoples mouths". They weren't some words, they were your words, in direct response to my query. For someone trying to take the high ground in a discussion, that's not a good look.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Actually, I get the idea of knowing by example instead of knowing by definition. To be clear, did you offer all of these examples as people who didn't have a longish period of development, but were basically near the top of their game by, say, year 3? I wouldn't want to misconstrue you again.

BTW, you did just say someone who used an exact quote from you as "throw some words in peoples mouths". They weren't some words, they were your words, in direct response to my query. For someone trying to take the high ground in a discussion, that's not a good look.

They were all able to be average backup centers early in their career. Many continued to get better. Not sure they were/are near the top of their game. Jokic obviously has continued to get better exponentially.

The argument originally is that it is wise to take the time to develop a backup center and that centers take a long time to develop. Neither are true.

If Udoka was a good enough prospect that you are willing to use and develop him as a backup this year, then fine go ahead and take him. I would understand if you signed a stop gap option on a one year deal just in case. If he is good enough to one day be a solid starter... he should be good enough early in his career to function as an average backup.

Name me some centers that basically sat for 3 years and became solid starters? Not even trying to "trick" anyone here... genuinely curious and would like someone else to do some work here.

 

[homeytennis]

Jeff Withey starting in Korea.