Warriors and Jazz Mega Trade

[Stifle Tower]

It's a good point - but to be fair - at the time of my initial disappointment, I did think that Golden State was trying to make room for Dwight Howard. If that was the case, then the Jazz should have held out for Barnes. Since they weren't clearing cap for Dwight (because he was going to sign with Houston) and Iggy was their alternative, it's very clear that neither Barnes, nor Bogut were on the table. The Jazz clearly got the best deal that was available (and then some.)

Two 1st round picks for taking on Biedrins and Jefferson sounds about right, but to then also work Brandon Rush and multiple 2nd round picks into the deal was masterful. Had the Lakers traded Dwight to Golden State for Barnes, Bogut and assets, I would have been less enthusiastic. After seeing how everything ended up playing out, there's no doubt that the Jazz won this trade. And possibly crushed it since both 1st round picks are unprotected.

Good point. I too, am thrilled with the inclusion of Rush. By the deadline, I'll bet we can flip him to a contender for their late first. If they're over the cap, we'll just get back one of their end of bench guys that would be an expiring.

 

[//r00t 4 Jazz]

Personally I hope Rush comes in and and does well enough that it makes the Jazz want to keep him to be part of the future of this young and growing team.

 

[Zulu]

It's a good point - but to be fair - at the time of my initial disappointment, I did think that Golden State was trying to make room for Dwight Howard. If that was the case, then the Jazz should have held out for Barnes. Since they weren't clearing cap for Dwight (because he was going to sign with Houston) and Iggy was their alternative, it's very clear that neither Barnes, nor Bogut were on the table. The Jazz clearly got the best deal that was available (and then some.)

Two 1st round picks for taking on Biedrins and Jefferson sounds about right, but to then also work Brandon Rush and multiple 2nd round picks into the deal was masterful. Had the Lakers traded Dwight to Golden State for Barnes, Bogut and assets, I would have been less enthusiastic. After seeing how everything ended up playing out, there's no doubt that the Jazz won this trade. And possibly crushed it since both 1st round picks are unprotected.

I'll cut you some slack...

I honestly thought when we were first rumored to be getting Bogut that is when GS was still in the running for Dwight as soon as the rumors changed to Beidrens and RJefferson I knew they were now going in a different direction!!

The lakers IMO wouldn't have signed and traded for Bogut and Barnes... It would still keep them like 70 million in luxury tax

 

[Stifle Tower]

I'll cut you some slack...

I honestly thought when we were first rumored to be getting Bogut that is when GS was still in the running for Dwight as soon as the rumors changed to Beidrens and RJefferson I knew they were now going in a different direction!!

The lakers IMO wouldn't have signed and traded for Bogut and Barnes... It would still keep them like 70 million in luxury tax

Agree. It was Dwight or nothing for LA. Now they can be conservative with Kobe's return and likely be a lottery team next season. They'll hope to win one of the top-3 spots, sign LeBron and return to the top of the NBA.

 

[Coach Ellis]

I'll cut you some slack...

I honestly thought when we were first rumored to be getting Bogut that is when GS was still in the running for Dwight as soon as the rumors changed to Beidrens and RJefferson I knew they were now going in a different direction!!

The lakers IMO wouldn't have signed and traded for Bogut and Barnes... It would still keep them like 70 million in luxury tax

My biggest worry at the time was that they'd use the Jazz to land both Howard and Iggy. If that happened, I wanted Barnes out of the deal over the 2014 pick because adding Dwight and Iggy would make them potential contenders if everyone could stay healthy.

 

[Siro]

Good point. I too, am thrilled with the inclusion of Rush. By the deadline, I'll bet we can flip him to a contender for their late first. If they're over the cap, we'll just get back one of their end of bench guys that would be an expiring.

Unless Rush is nowhere near his 2011 level, this would be a terrible trade.

 

[Stoked]

Unless Rush is nowhere near his 2011 level, this would be a terrible trade.

Even is Rush is abysmal this is a fantastic trade. Sets the Jazz up in a great position for the 2014 draft.

 

[Siro]

Even is Rush is abysmal this is a fantastic trade. Sets the Jazz up in a great position for the 2014 draft.

I was talking about Core4's suggestion of flipping him for a late first pick.

 

[Coach Ellis]

For what it's worth, I hope that Brandon Rush recovers from his knee injury and plays great for the Jazz as their 6th man. If he's back to his 2011 form, he's a bonafide starter in the NBA.

With that said, I don't want him starting over Hayward or Burks. It's time to see what those two have got before it's too late. I'm also worried about investing long-term in a 28 year old player coming off two knee injuries and with a history of drug problems. I like the guy. I hope he's past his substance abuse issues and his knee is healthy. I want him to play well so that they can flip him for a decent 2014 or 2015 first round pick.

Right now, he has a manageable salary. . . but if he has a good year, what will it cost to keep him? IMO, there's just too much risk in that. If they can get something decent for him, then they should. Buy low. Sell high. I've seen what Dennis Lindsey can do in the draft with ammunition. I'd like to see him with as many bullets as possible for 2014.

 

[Stifle Tower]

I was talking about Core4's suggestion of flipping him for a late first pick.

Even if we can't flip him, my view of the trade doesn't change. It was a fantastic deal. This is like taking all the booze out of an alcoholic's house and preventing him from buying more. Lindsey has signed Corbin up for "Veteran's Anonymous." Frustrated with the young guys? There's more young guys behind them...or vets so unpotable, even Ty would object to drinking from that well. And, of the only two that WILL be tempting, one is out until almost mid-season and the other could become a valuable trade commodity.

 

[cowhide]

Two first rounders is pretty boss

Do we have an official draft pick count for the deal? Are we sure that both 1st round picks are unprotected? How many 2nd round picks did we get and are they GS second round picks or do they just have the right to the picks?

 

[Coach Ellis]

Even if we can't flip him, my view of the trade doesn't change. It was a fantastic deal. This is like taking all the booze out of an alcoholic's house and preventing him from buying more. Lindsey has signed Corbin up for "Veteran's Anonymous." Frustrated with the young guys? There's more young guys behind them...or vets so unpotable, even Ty would object to drinking from that well. And, of the only two that WILL be tempting, one is out until almost mid-season and the other could become a valuable trade commodity.

This post right here sums up exactly how I feel about the vision of Dennis Lindsey. There's going to be some rough spots as they transition, but I think the whole team will be better for it in the long run. The owner's bank account, the front office, coaching staff, core five, bench players, salary cap. . . All of it gets better over the next three years because of what Lindsey is doing to build this team from the ground up. KOC started the process, but Dennis Linsey is damn sure going to see it through!

 

[Stifle Tower]

For what it's worth, I hope that Brandon Rush recovers from his knee injury and plays great for the Jazz as their 6th man. If he's back to his 2011 form, he's a bonafide starter in the NBA.

Right now, he has a manageable salary. . . but if he has a good year, what will it cost to keep him? IMO, there's just too much risk in that. If they can get something decent for him, then they should. Buy low. Sell high.

I think there's little chance of the Jazz re-signing Rush. They'll likely get a wing in the draft, which would leave them with Burks/Hayward/Draft Pick as the rotation at the 2/3. They'll also have GS' pick to add depth (if they can't/don't combine the picks to move up). Burks MIGHT come off the bench, and I'd be ok with that; depends on what Utah does at the PG position. Burks could come in late first behind Burke, play PG for 6 minutes, then slide over to SG when Trey comes back in. Rush starts the 1st/3rd quarters and 3 mins into the 2nd/4th. End of games depends on situational matchups. That type of rotation gives all of them 30+ mins. Hayward plays all his minutes at SF due to Marvin being out and Jefferson as the only sub. Well, I guess Rush could also play SF in a small lineup.

 

[Stoked]

Not sure about this trade but right now I trust this FO to know what it is doing. They have made several concrete moves to the future and hit home runs with the draft and GST/Utah moves.

I will give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[colton]

I think there's little chance of the Jazz re-signing Rush.

Why? I think the opposite. I think Lindsey did this particular deal specifically because he did think there's a reasonable chance of re-signing Rush.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Why? I think the opposite. I think Lindsey did this particular deal specifically because he did think there's a reasonable chance of re-signing Rush.

Looking from a rotational standpoint, I see the Jazz drafting a wing. So we'd have three wings in Burks, Hayward and next year's probable lottery pick. Three bigs in Kanter, Favors and Gobert and a PG in Burke. The holes I see in that lineup are; 1) a quality backup behind Burke; 2) a stretch 4. Backup PG could be Neto, but more likely the Jazz would want a solid veteran. Maybe Gobert develops enough to be the 3rd big and Favors and Kanter show some range. I think that's unlikely and the jazz will need to go shopping for a solid shooter at PF. Unless GS has a catastrophe, their pick is just going to provide additional depth, bring us a project or perhaps be enough to move us up a pick or two in the draft (but not from say 4th to top-2 or 7th to top-5).

Financially, big raises are coming for Favors, Hayward and Kanter with a sizeable one for Burks. It would be tight, but the Jazz MIGHT be able to keep Rush AND add other veterans as needed. I think it likely, however, that if Rush recovers from his injury and proves he's a 25-30 min/per player, the Jazz would have to choose between paying him or Burks to be in the 3-man wing rotation (with Hayward and their 2014 pick). Once the Jazz have their core-8 players, draft picks and cheap vets will have to fill in the roster behind them.

 

[colton]

I disagree, but thanks for explaining.

 

[//r00t 4 Jazz]

I agree with Colton, with the new CBA teams and players are adjusting, however as has been said in other threads the most affected player will be the mid tier guys. Because the top players will still get their big contracts and the low end players will still get their low contracts but teams aren't going to pay the penalty for mid level guys and so there wont be as many of those size of contracts as there used to be so they will have to take short but higher dollar contracts or longer smaller contracts (for more stability). Which IMO is what Rush will fit into and given his injury history he would be a prime target to not chance a short high dollar contract but a lower more year contract (assuming he does as well as I hope he does anyway).

 

[Stifle Tower]

I disagree, but thanks for explaining.

I guess someone would have to run the numbers on what the roster costs would likely be for the Core5 + next years pick and see if the Jazz could still fit Rush in with a 2-3 year deal. Definitely affordable for next season (Kanter and Burks in last year of rookie contracts). But years 2 and beyond might be tricky.

 

[Coach Ellis]

Good reasoning by both sides. Like I said earlier, I think that whatever they do with Rush is a good decision. If he's healthy and playing off the bench this year, I'd prefer to see them trade him at the deadline for another pick. If that's not possible, they can extend him (hopefully for a bargain) or let his deal expire. No bad options with the guy except overpaying him long term and having his knees continue to give him trouble. Then the Jazz likely lose a core player instead.