Gyp Rosetti
Banned
So all in all, how was Fes last night? I saw Nene blow by him the one time. But overall, ona 1 to 10 scale, how was he?
Was Fes' Play Last Night An Aberration?
- Thread starter Scat
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I probably give him about a 6 maybe even 7. Did have 3 assists. Dont think we used him enough in the post though. I think I would have him play more minutes than Jefferson last night, but I am sure Big Al will improve.
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
He also had zero rebounds. Elson on the other hand played 16+ minutes and had eight rebounds.
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Same or better stats than Elson in half the time. Shut a very hot Kaman down and pretty much shut down the whole paint while in. Subway "sub" of the game, hailed all-around by many as having an impact and bringing energy and yet never got back in. Also, though I like CJ, 1-15 fg and 0-3 3pt shots, why wasn't Raja in the game? Seriously that game was driving me bananas.
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
Aberration? I'd say more like an abomination.
Fes has worked hard and done everything that could have been reasonably asked of him in the limited time he has been given.
Hard to think of a reason why there shouldn't be at least an opportunity for him to expand his role.
Hard to think of a reason why there shouldn't be at least an opportunity for him to expand his role.
GVC
Well-Known Member
Maybe that opportunity is forthcoming. He may still have been under the weather a bit last night. He made a few nice plays last night in his limited minutes, and certainly deserves some more time.
Hopper
Banned
How much long-term reliance do you want to put on a guy who seems to have a chronic case of "gastric distress?"
InGameStrategy
Well-Known Member
Not sure what the best lineup is against Miami; he's probably the best matchup on Ilgauskus (usually the backup). It is crucial that Sloan spreads the minutes around so that the team has the energy to play Orlando the next night. Utah is going to need Fesenko (or somebody) for a few minutes against Dwight Howard. Unfortunately, Sloan has not substantially raised Fes's minutes; he's still averaging less than 5 minutes per available game (although he might have been out for illness; I don't know if that's happenstance or his doing.)
Giving Al Jefferson (especially when he's struggled) 35+ minutes instead of 30 is not as valuable as giving the centers (combined) 20+ minutes instead of 10 or 15. So far, Elson and Fes have produced at about the same rate; but Fesenko has better assists, and he should be rewarded with more time. And if Sloan isn't gonna bench Jefferson for the abysmal boxing out repeatedly in the past two games, then he shouldn't bench Fesenko for offensive or defensive lapses either. Although Fes hasn't been perfect in help defense or boxing out, either, he has seems to have had more problem with still being too aggressive defensively rather than too lax.
Coaching 101.
Giving Al Jefferson (especially when he's struggled) 35+ minutes instead of 30 is not as valuable as giving the centers (combined) 20+ minutes instead of 10 or 15. So far, Elson and Fes have produced at about the same rate; but Fesenko has better assists, and he should be rewarded with more time. And if Sloan isn't gonna bench Jefferson for the abysmal boxing out repeatedly in the past two games, then he shouldn't bench Fesenko for offensive or defensive lapses either. Although Fes hasn't been perfect in help defense or boxing out, either, he has seems to have had more problem with still being too aggressive defensively rather than too lax.
Coaching 101.
The real issue is that it's hardly the first time. He obviously came to camp in shape and I thought it was obvious just from lay-person observation that he has tried to improve his post game significantly. Some of his production has been astonishing given that he sits so long he's effectively coming into the game cold. In the Phoenix game he got four second quarter minutes and poured in 4 points, and 4 rebounds in that period of time while the Jazz closed the gap some. Then he was never seen again until garbage time in the fourth when the game was out of reach.
Sloan's "work hard and then you'll get time" mentality breaks down if you don't get rewarded with actual time to the benefit of Francisco ****ing Elson. In Fes' case Sloan appears to have decoupled actual effort or results from playing time. I realize this is hardly a shocking "development" given that this is Jerry we're talking about, but Fes has reason to be frustrated.
fishonjazz
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Its pretty simple to figure out why fess doesn't get more minutes. two words (or maybe its 3 words?) Sloans doghouse. He seems to be playing pretty hard/well in the minutes he gets but he apparently rubs sloan the wrong way. He probably smiles too much and doesn't get angry enough or something.
Hopper
Banned
"A unit featuring Williams, Bell, C.J. Miles, Francisco Elson and Al Jefferson gave Utah an extra edge, sharpened by the focused intensity of Elson." (Brian Smith, SLT)
Always kinda funny how differently neutral observers see things than fanboyz, eh?
I'm always a little irritated when a fanboy tries to make his point by tearing down his favorite's "competition" on the Jazz. Competition on the other team, sure, go for it, bigtime. But other Jazz players?
Not that I put any stock in it, but knowin that S2 always resorts to it (when he thinks it favors his boy, anyway) I will note this: Elson had the highest +/- on the team last night (8). Fess's +/- was 0.
Im with Kick on this one. Completely.
Fes deserves minutes if only for his on court production. Last night he had some great rebounds, some nice assists and some scoring opportunities. We need more of these...not to mention a large presence at the hoop.
Fes deserves minutes if only for his on court production. Last night he had some great rebounds, some nice assists and some scoring opportunities. We need more of these...not to mention a large presence at the hoop.
Personally I always think it's funny when someone wants to cherry pick their "neutral observers," entirely displacing the purpose of going to outside sources. Other outside observers dubbed Fes the "sub of the game" last night. Elson, of course, is also a sub.
As a side note: what smith calls "focused intensity" I call "really scary android-like qualities." I'm not certain Elson is even a human being. The Madame believes he's some kind of cylon. I maintain he's not lifelike enough to be a cylon and think he's more akin to Abraham Lincoln at Disneyland's Hall of Presidents.
There's a pretty good reason to strongly prefer playing Fes to Elson: Fes has a future. Even if you were to spot that their production on the court is roughly equal (which, FWIW, isn't true) the reality is that Elson is 34 years old and has been on six different teams over eight seasons. It's hardly likely we're going to see rapid improvement from the guy. Fesenko is nearly eleven years younger and is working on adding components to his game. One guy is who he is. The other is a wasting asset while Sloan is running the clock out.
I know Jerry is your guy but if Fes doesn't get to play even after he loses the weight, changes his regimen, stops jackpotting around, and shows a real commitment to improving his skill set at some point he's no longer plausibly the problem.
Hopper
Banned
To begin with, Fess did git to play, and he played well, presumably increasin Sloan's future confidence in him. I don't know what is behind Fess's "gastric distress," but Sloan sees it as a problem. It's hard for an outsider to know just how much Fess has actually quit "jackpotting around." Sloan has given Fess high praise, while also noting that you never know when he's gunna be there.
Sloan, Johnson, and company presumably had some reason for preferring Elson over Fess at that stage of the game. Let's face it, this was a game that called for determination after gittin 18 points down. It wasn't a situation where "future development" was the foremost consideration. My point was simply that Elson did an (at least) adequate job, and the Fess fanboyz want to diss him for it.