We need to trade Hayward now

[Mission Accomplished]

If you can't separate fanboy from Jazz fan then go ahead and be ignorant to the up coming expiring contract of Hayward. We negotiated he and his agent didn't accept now if we still want him we are clearly going to overpay.

How did this become a Burks thread when he has not gotten the same playing time as Hayward. He is still a very young player Hayward has gotten way more then the rest of the team combined opportunities and he has show he is worth 4 year 40 million.

 

[Jazz4ever]

If you can't separate fanboy from Jazz fan then go ahead and be ignorant to the up coming expiring contract of Hayward. We negotiated he and his agent didn't accept now if we still want him we are clearly going to overpay.

How did this become a Burks thread when he has not gotten the same playing time as Hayward. He is still a very young player Hayward has gotten way more then the rest of the team combined opportunities and he has show he is worth 4 year 40 million.

Maybe, maybe not. While bigs tend to get overpaid in RFA, there is not much precedent of wings getting overpaid in RFA. Trust Lindsey, he is smarter than us.

 

[akirac73]

This song comes for Hayward haters;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hkt8E2Ul-Xw

Seriously there is no way to please some people. The guy just missed the triple-double with two assists. He made some dumb mistakes, but in overal it was a good performance. He is putting up some good numbers and not hurting the tank at the same time. What else can you ask for? geez...

As far as I know, nobody here "hates" Hayward, people just Hate the idea of paying big money for what he brings to the table. And let's not get ahead ourselves here, yes, Hayward did have a good game, but he's had many good games throughout his career...the $40million question still remains, can he do this on a consistent basis? Nobody knows yet...

 

[Justys]

Arguing with yourself?

If Hayward had signed his extension I would have been adamantly against trading him. I'm extremely disappointed in his decision and would be okay with a trade now. (That's not the same as agreeing with KOC Begone, btw.)

Agreed, trade him to phx for there 3 picks next year

 

[addictionary]

Carry on my Hayward son by Kansas Wildbluedevilcats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X_2IdybTV0

 

[CitizenofCapua]

As far as I know, nobody here "hates" Hayward, people just Hate the idea of paying big money for what he brings to the table. And let's not get ahead ourselves here, yes, Hayward did have a good game, but he's had many good games throughout his career...the $40million question still remains, can he do this on a consistent basis? Nobody knows yet...

I also think FO shouldnt rush to extend his contract but that song was for the people who think he doesnt worthy of an 40million/4 year just by looking at couple of games. If you compare other contract sheets in NBA for the guy who plays at the wing, you can see 40million $ deal got a huge potential to be a pretty fair deal.

OFC our expectations will be high for a guy who possibly will get 10-11 per year but it shouldn't be sky-high. We want him to be clutch, we want him to be consistent, we want him to be mentally and pysically ready for every game. But that worths much more than 10 million per year. Deng is getting 14 million per year and he is not more consistent than Harvey Dent. One night he has a great game other night he shots 13-4 and get lost in crunch time. And you know Hayward got a better durability than the guys like Gallinari(11 mil. per year) or Eric Gordon(14 mil. per year). You know that he higly likely will stay healthy (knock on woods) throughout his career. Also i dont think he got such a caracter who gets the contract and lie down and enjoy himself like Evans(11 mil. per year) and i simply believe he deserves slightly a better contract(9 mil per year) than Thaddeus Young has. I dont even need to mention other ridicolous contracts guys like Rudy Gay or G.Wallace have.

To put it shortly, like it or not thats the market. And when you look at the market that is a pretty fair deal and Hayward got every right to ask for that numbers on his contract, cause this is his first big contract and he wont get another one till he is 27-28. So its pretty important for him.

 

[Mission Accomplished]

I also think FO shouldnt rush to extend his contract but that song was for the people who think he doesnt worthy of an 40million/4 year just by looking at couple of games. If you compare other contract sheets in NBA for the guy who plays at the wing, you can see 40million $ deal got a huge potential to be a pretty fair deal.

OFC our expectations will be high for a guy who possibly will get 10-11 per year but it shouldn't be sky-high. We want him to be clutch, we want him to be consistent, we want him to be mentally and pysically ready for every game. But that worths much more than 10 million per year. Deng is getting 14 million per year and he is not more consistent than Harvey Dent. One night he has a great game other night he shots 13-4 and get lost in crunch time. And you know Hayward got a better durability than the guys like Gallinari(11 mil. per year) or Eric Gordon(14 mil. per year). You know that he higly likely will stay healthy (knock on woods) throughout his career. Also i dont think he got such a caracter who gets the contract and lie down and enjoy himself like Evans(11 mil. per year) and i simply believe he deserves slightly a better contract(9 mil per year) than Thaddeus Young has. I dont even need to mention other ridicolous contracts guys like Rudy Gay or G.Wallace have.

To put it shortly, like it or not thats the market. And when you look at the market that is a pretty fair deal and Hayward got every right to ask for that numbers on his contract, cause this is his first big contract and he wont get another one till he is 27-28. So its pretty important for him.

That is the market set for uncompetitive teams. we live in an age where if we overspend we can't set ourselves up for the future. Giving Hayward more that 40 mil is overspending. And by the way all you cry babies who freak out about KOCgone well he isn't the main GM and Lindsey is clearly even now hands down the better GM.

 

[CitizenofCapua]

That is the market set for uncompetitive teams. we live in an age where if we overspend we can't set ourselves up for the future. Giving Hayward more that 40 mil is overspending. And by the way all you cry babies who freak out about KOCgone well he isn't the main GM and Lindsey is clearly even now hands down the better GM.

I didnt know Bulls, Nuggets, Clippers are/were uncompetitive teams. Hayward is not an old veteran player who just wants to wear some rings and ready to give up some bucks for the sake of it. He is young, ofc he will first look at making money and we are not competing yet. If we turn out to be a really good team and i think we will (its also up to next years draft) in 2-3 years then Utah could be an attractive place for some quality FA's who already made millions of $ throughout their careeer and able to give up on some money to earn something that missing in their NBA journey.

Again, that is a pretty fair deal(40) for Hayward and eventually he will get that kind of deal and i don't think it will be untradable in the future when FO want or have to. Im not sure about over 40 million deals though. It depends on how much its over it.

 

[Beantown]

If Hayward gets the max next summer the Jazz should look at bringing in Evan Turner.

 

[The Midnight]

I like Burks and Hayward playing together because right now they are the best SG/SF we have. I thought Gordy played his butt off last night. He did disappear in the second half until he hit the big three. I want to keep Gordy but I don't think he is a number one option. Perhaps he could become that but I think he is more of a second or third option. He does better when a PG dishes him the ball and he shoots the rock. His mid-range game still is below average. It is better than it was when he came in the league but he still has a ways to go.

Burks needs to improve his outside shot, FTs and his inclination to throw the ball away. However, Burks has made huge strides in most of his game. Unfortunately the reality is teams will not be able to keep all their players. When a player demands more than he is worth, tough choices need to be made. At this point, I don't think Hayward is worth $12m and even $10m is pushing it. Part of my thinking is that in the 2014 draft we could draft his replacement.

Look at OKC, they were unable to keep Jeff Green and James Harden because both players wanted to be paid too much. Jeff Green is a solid player who is a lot like Hayward. He does a lot of nice things but he isn't a number one option. Harden wasn't willing to take less and because OKC brought in Perkins and then sign Ibaka to too much money they couldn't afford Harden. Hopefully the Jazz have learned from this and don't overpay or bring in an overprice vet so they can't keep their own players. Even with smart financial decisions the Jazz are not going to keep all their Core unless players are willing to take less which isn't going to happen.

The problem with drafting well is that you start to become a training camp for other teams. Just think after this season the Jazz will have the Core4 (assuming Hayward signs with us) plus Burke, Gobert, and one high and one mid first round draft picks. As exciting as that is, there is no way the Jazz can keep all these guys. So in reality the Jazz will be punished for drafting well. I just hope the Jazz don't over pay for a player and it ends up costing us two or three promising players.

Not if we can get quality assets back in return though.

 

[The Midnight]

How can we resign Hayward and still have money for Kanter Burks and Wiggins?

Good point - if we can somehow get Wiggins, Hayward could become our 4th best player and/or offensive option in 2-3 years.

And you definitely can't pay him more than $10m per year for that kind of role.

 

[The Midnight]

The Clippers/Lakers seem like teams that could use Hayward. Clippers needs someone to replace Reddick who isn't a starting SG material in the West. Lakers could use a new SF to go with Kobe or their future SG.


So I think if either the Clippers/Lakers didn't have a good season and get them a draft pick in the late teens in 2014 draft, I wouldn't mind doing Hayward straight up for that pick.

According to Chad Ford's mock draft you're looking at the following players:

15. Chris Walker
16. Gary Harris
17. Sam Deck
18. Mario Hezonja
19. Mitch McGary
20. Isaiah Austin

One could argue Harris and Hezonja are great potential starting SG material and McGary and Austin could turn out to be solid 3rd bigs. Not a bad return for a guy we can't "afford" to keep.

 

[BTP]

The Clippers/Lakers seem like teams that could use Hayward. Clippers needs someone to replace Reddick who isn't a starting SG material in the West. Lakers could use a new SF to go with Kobe or their future SG.


So I think if either the Clippers/Lakers didn't have a good season and get them a draft pick in the late teens in 2014 draft, I wouldn't mind doing Hayward straight up for that pick.

According to Chad Ford's mock draft you're looking at the following players:

15. Chris Walker
16. Gary Harris
17. Sam Deck
18. Mario Hezonja
19. Mitch McGary
20. Isaiah Austin

One could argue Harris and Hezonja are great potential starting SG material and McGary and Austin could turn out to be solid 3rd bigs. Not a bad return for a guy we can't "afford" to keep.

ESPN journalists are total joke. Broussard and Ford are the frontrunners, who are simply getting paid to entertain 60+ yr old self righteous mental cases.
I'd never lose any thought óver ESPN mock drafts. They didn't either, that's why.

 

[The Midnight]

ESPN journalists are total joke. Broussard and Ford are the frontrunners, who are simply getting paid to entertain 60+ yr old self righteous mental cases.
I'd never lose any thought óver ESPN mock drafts. They didn't either, that's why.

Bro, you're taking things too literally... I was merely using his mock as a "snap shot" example of who we could get. It's too early to say who will be available in that range next year.

 

[BTP]

Bro, you're taking things too literally... I was merely using his mock as a "snap shot" example of who we could get. It's too early to say who will be available in that range next year.

I don't take any selection serious. I just say a ESPN selection is in general bad. Cause ESPN delivers for casual nutcase retired persons, not quality content.

 

[The Midnight]

I don't take any selection serious. I just say a ESPN selection is in general bad. Cause ESPN delivers for casual nutcase retired persons, not quality content.

Sky's blue. What's new?

 

[BTP]

yeah I mean there's a couple nutcases on this board as well, so maybe they'd be interested to listen to ESPN hobos. But you don't make a case for yourself by quoting ESPN. ty

 

[The Midnight]

yeah I mean there's a couple nutcases on this board as well, so maybe they'd be interested to listen to ESPN hobos. But you don't make a case for yourself by quoting ESPN. ty

Don't mean to burst your bubble bro, but you're getting close to becoming 1 right now, the way you've been going.


Sorry for being blunt.

 

[Mission Accomplished]

I didnt know Bulls, Nuggets, Clippers are/were uncompetitive teams. Hayward is not an old veteran player who just wants to wear some rings and ready to give up some bucks for the sake of it. He is young, ofc he will first look at making money and we are not competing yet. If we turn out to be a really good team and i think we will (its also up to next years draft) in 2-3 years then Utah could be an attractive place for some quality FA's who already made millions of $ throughout their careeer and able to give up on some money to earn something that missing in their NBA journey.

Again, that is a pretty fair deal(40) for Hayward and eventually he will get that kind of deal and i don't think it will be untradable in the future when FO want or have to. Im not sure about over 40 million deals though. It depends on how much its over it.

YOu are kidding right those teams don't have bad contracts and they might have made poor decisions in the past. But, in the new lower cap they are going to be moving players that they over paid for like Deng, I don't know who you think are on the other two teams that are Hayward type players.

The only team that made a decision like Hayward in the new cap times is Indiana over paying for Paul George and that guy is on another level than Hayward. He was leading his team while in the playoffs.

 

[ijazz]

YOu are kidding right those teams don't have bad contracts and they might have made poor decisions in the past. But, in the new lower cap they are going to be moving players that they over paid for like Deng, I don't know who you think are on the other two teams that are Hayward type players.

The only team that made a decision like Hayward in the new cap times is Indiana over paying for Paul George and that guy is on another level than Hayward. He was leading his team while in the playoffs.

Here is my opinion on Favors/Hayward deals and no deals.

Favors - Jazz got a STEAL with his contract. Great bigs, even if defensive only are special. Favors would have easily been offered a Max. So while this is a good deal, how is Favors going to feel when he posts great numbers, realizes he is elite, then realizes underpaid.

Hayward - Tough tough case. At Team USA GM's loved him. He gets no national exposure so that helped him a lot (with East coast teams). Jazz made the correct **business decision** not giving him more than the rumored 4/40 that was leaked.
With that said, I feel the Jazz made a poor decision overall on Hayward. I would have overpaid him up to 12.5 year. This shows confidence in him. He has grown every year, creates mismatches, is a two way player, very unique player. I would be more concerned if he had stopped developing already.

Anyway , there is more to business than numbers. While 12.5 is overpaying for Hayward, do we really feel that is too much for Hayward in 2 years ? That's the gamble. They basically told Hayward "We love ya kid, you the face .... BUT we want to see more". Again, callus solid business decision, but I think it will impact the Jazz in a negative way.

1. Hayward - RFA mode, he will easily get the 4/40 rumored by the Jazz to have offered. His only downside is injury.
2. Jazz - Now have a circus with teams maybe wanting a trade, etc..
3. Jazz - Someone may be crazy and offer a Max...yes Max....
4. Draft - Yes, Wiggins etc..... but no one knows what a player will be like in the NBA till hey get here. How durable ? Work ethic ? What happens when they get money ? They OK staying in Utah a Long time ?

Botton line - I actually think we make a mistake with both. Favors we took advantage of and Hayward we alienated (no matter what both sides say).

Oh well, millionaire problems so I certainly cannot relate.