We should move on from George Hill

[Cappy_Smurf]

To me, it just doesn't feel smart to dump $25/30 million per into a guy that's on the wrong side of 30 and is probably going to give us around 60 games next year. Even if he's healthy in next years playoffs, does he really get us over the hump with GSW? No. It's a tough spot to be in and the Jazz are gonna have to get creative/lucky if they let Hill walk but that's why Lindsey gets paid the big bucks.

Committing that much cash to Hill honestly feels like Utah locks into being the 4th or 5th best team in the West for the next 4 or 5 years with an annual second round ouster from the playoffs (and that's if Hill is healthy).

No way. We won 51 games with guys like Lyles and Diaw playing significant minutes and Favors never being 100%. Good health from Hill and Favors THIS year puts us at 2 or 3 best in the west.

Utah is already right there with the best teams in the west, other than GS, and we could still improve through trade, hitting on a draft pick and internal development. This team is in a really good spot, and letting Hill walk without being able to spend that money on similar talent is a step back and won't help us because we won't have any cap space.

 

[Siro]

LINK

Just so we all understand (without considering draft pick salaries):

Guaranteed Contracts
Bolomboy	$ 1,312,611.00
Burks	$ 10,845,506.00
Exum	$ 4,992,385.00
Favors	$ 12,000,000.00
Gobert	$ 21,224,719.00
Hood	$ 2,386,864.00
Johnson	$ 10,505,000.00
Lyles	$ 2,441,400.00
Non-Guaranteed Contracts
Diaw	$ 7,500,000.00
Neto	$ 1,471,382.00
Cap Holds
Hayward	$ 24,109,710.00
Hill	$ 12,000,000.00
Ingles	$ 4,085,000.00
Mack	$ 4,623,335.00
Withey	$ 1,471,382.00
Total:	$ 120,969,294.00
Salary Cap:	$ 101,000,000.00
Cap Space:	($ 19,969,294.00)

So the Jazz are $20mil over the cap heading into the offseason. Who are they dropping to sign these other free agents?

So the Jazz can move Burks, Favors, Diaw, and Mack. That's 35 million, or about 15 million under the cap. If you let Hill walk, then 47 and 27.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Also, Ingles' next deal with certainly be twice as much as his cap hold, so that's another variable to consider.

 

[sepanol]

Sorry guys but we are not getting anywhere with Hayward/Hill/Gobert core. Hill is injury loaded and declining. And numbers like 30 m crazy. I dont understand the logic behind it. A handful of people getting 30. I would give Hill 30 m for 2 years and thats it. We should look for better options. Get CP3 if we are able to spend 30 for that position really. Or get Deron for a reasonable price and sign Butler/P.George.

Of course making the playoffs will satisfy everyone here and no need for contending, then lets throw as much as Money you want on Hill..

 

[sepanol]

No way. We won 51 games with guys like Lyles and Diaw playing significant minutes and Favors never being 100%. Good health from Hill and Favors THIS year puts us at 2 or 3 best in the west.

Utah is already right there with the best teams in the west, other than GS, and we could still improve through trade, hitting on a draft pick and internal development. This team is in a really good spot, and letting Hill walk without being able to spend that money on similar talent is a step back and won't help us because we won't have any cap space.

Spurs will push for CP3, Pelicans right behind it. There is Houston. Portland, Minnesota and Denver all rising. And you are talking like it is easy to be 2-3. There is gonna be hell of a competition next year. And we wont be making 50 with current lineup. And dont say "IF" healthy. It is not like everybody gonna be healthy for all 82 games.

 

[Bawse Dawg]

Sorry guys but we are not getting anywhere with Hayward/Hill/Gobert core. Hill is injury loaded and declining. And numbers like 30 m crazy. I dont understand the logic behind it. A handful of people getting 30. I would give Hill 30 m for 2 years and thats it. We should look for better options. Get CP3 if we are able to spend 30 for that position really. Or get Deron for a reasonable price and sign Butler/P.George.

Of course making the playoffs will satisfy everyone here and no need for contending, then lets throw as much as Money you want on Hill..

Oh okay we'll just go ahead and do that. It's super simple to get players like CP3 George and Butler to come to Utah.

 

[Cappy_Smurf]

Sorry guys but we are not getting anywhere with Hayward/Hill/Gobert core. Hill is injury loaded and declining. And numbers like 30 m crazy. I dont understand the logic behind it. A handful of people getting 30. I would give Hill 30 m for 2 years and thats it. We should look for better options. Get CP3 if we are able to spend 30 for that position really. Or get Deron for a reasonable price and sign Butler/P.George.

Of course making the playoffs will satisfy everyone here and no need for contending, then lets throw as much as Money you want on Hill..

We should probably sign both Butler and George, just to be safe. Their teams will probably be mad though, what with that already under contract thingy.

 

[akirac73]

I would like Hill back, but no ****ing way at $30M/year. $20-$22M/year seems fair.

 

[veji1]

I would like Hill back, but no ****ing way at $30M/year. $20-$22M/year seems fair.

That should be the starting point : Gobert signed for a little bit less than the max and he was an up and coming 23 year old. Hill is turning 30, he can be a key leader of a team that competes and get great money. it's up to him. 120M/4 is too much, it would cripple the team. 80M/4 is the starting offer. If you can get him for a bit less then 100M/4, you probably roll the dice with it because chances are you will have a very hard time finding a better player for less or equivalent money. The situation isn't ideal in that regard, but it isn't dire either.

Yet let's not forget that the Hill situation is second to the Hayward situation for the team. Hayward is the key because with Hayward and Gobert you can build a team that gives you 50wins a season, one way or another. Without Hayward it becomes a lot harder, Gobert/Hill gives you no guarantee whatsoever if you don't get some good offense to come to the team, you might be the best defensive team (or at least the slowest), but you could very well hover around the 50% line again.

 

[Siro]

Hill is turning 30

Hill just turned 31.

 

[Revolution 9]

This thread should be titled "We should move on from Mack"

 

[The Fresh Prince]

Rod Hood and Faves gonna get traded on draft night for Lonzo Ball. Lol since everyone is talking all bat**** crazy since we got swept up.

 

[GVC]

So the Jazz can move Burks, Favors, Diaw, and Mack. That's 35 million, or about 15 million under the cap. If you let Hill walk, then 47 and 27.

So...
Hill, Favors, Burks, Diaw and Mack for Jrue Holiday?

Brilliant.

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

So what does not paying Hill feel like? A 6/7 seed? Because either way we are against the cap and not able to sign true top tier players.

I'm an internet armchair QB. I won't pretend to know what Lindsey should do once we move on from Hill. What I do know is that signing a guy on the wrong side of 30 with a troubling, compounding injury history for $25mil + per year seems like a bad idea. I'm not against the idea of Hill on this team, but certainly not at that price. IMO he's not a $25/30 mil per type of player when 100% healthy.

Utah is in a new realm and with that comes the problem that all of the other contenders face on a yearly basis: How to improve your roster while being firmly up against it salary wise.

 

[candrew]

People need to stop their whining and put Hill's injuries this season into proper perspective.

In 7 out of 9 seasons, Hill has been played in over 90% of the regular season games

I think that's a decent track record - probably better than a good chunk of the league. Better than D-Will, Boozer, AK47, Okur, Favors...I could go on.

Obviously Jazz shouldn't break the bank to keep him - but I'd doubt they'd have to. Hill understands Snyder, he understands what he's trying to do. Hill is an extension of QS out on the floor. He is priority #1-B this off-season.

 

[sepanol]

Oh okay we'll just go ahead and do that. It's super simple to get players like CP3 George and Butler to come to Utah.

Well being a contender is not simple. As you see only 2 teams are at that level now.
I am just telling you the truth. If Hayward is gone, we will barely make the playoffs or even stay out of the Picture. If Hayward stays we are still 50 win team if we dont add a 3rd stud.

I know, reality is harsh but this is it.

 

[sepanol]

That should be the starting point : Gobert signed for a little bit less than the max and he was an up and coming 23 year old. Hill is turning 30, he can be a key leader of a team that competes and get great money. it's up to him. 120M/4 is too much, it would cripple the team. 80M/4 is the starting offer. If you can get him for a bit less then 100M/4, you probably roll the dice with it because chances are you will have a very hard time finding a better player for less or equivalent money. The situation isn't ideal in that regard, but it isn't dire either.

Yet let's not forget that the Hill situation is second to the Hayward situation for the team. Hayward is the key because with Hayward and Gobert you can build a team that gives you 50wins a season, one way or another. Without Hayward it becomes a lot harder, Gobert/Hill gives you no guarantee whatsoever if you don't get some good offense to come to the team, you might be the best defensive team (or at least the slowest), but you could very well hover around the 50% line again.

Hill doesnt deserve 100m for 4 years. He is gonna be 35 after 4 years and his 25 m p year gonna be a burden we need to unload. He is worth max 50-60 m for 3 years deal. Nothing more.

 

[Stoked]

Well being a contender is not simple. As you see only 2 teams are at that level now.
I am just telling you the truth. If Hayward is gone, we will barely make the playoffs or even stay out of the Picture. If Hayward stays we are still 50 win team if we dont add a 3rd stud.

I know, reality is harsh but this is it.

Our record if Hayward leaves depends on what they o to replace him. If he leaves but the land another all star...

I agree on the 3rd stud. The Jazz have become great. Time to push for excellence. That means another player and shedding dead weight like Burks (so disappointing).

 

[Et tu Brute]

Dante shows promise once out of every four games.

Yep.
He is a DNPCD in the other three.


Note: Just so we're clear. DNPCD stands for 'did not play - Cy's decision'.

 

[sepanol]

It just doesnt fit right to me, after going 20-30-40-50 wins respectively, not shooting for 60. And Hayward is both fortunately and unfortunately key here. Because as we all understood, he wants to win. And if he is gonna stay, he might also push the management to set up a contending team and land one more star.
Otherwise if he leaves, it is gonna be a great step back for us. It is like a two edged knife here.

I dont think Hayward is a top 5 SF in the league. Kawhi, Lebron, Durant, Antetekoumpo, even George Butler and maybe still Melo better than him. But we have to stick with him and his decision is gonna be one of the most important turning points for Jazz in the last 10-15 years. We will see how clever the management will move this offseason and if Lindsey gonna let us know how good he is, it is this offseason.

Hey, even Charles Barkley said; I hope Hayward stays in Utah. Listen to Chuck Hayward, he knows something...