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Im think that the Jazz and Raptors nearly agreed to a straight-up Calderon for Harris trade earlier in the season.
Welcome back to Salt Lake - Mo Williams
- Thread starter The Midnight
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Im think that the Jazz and Raptors nearly agreed to a straight-up Calderon for Harris trade earlier in the season.
theNBAnerd
Well-Known Member
i'm with numberica on this one, for the same reason i liked marshall better in the lillard/marshall debate leading up to the draft. the jazz need a PG who is more interested in creating looks for favors, for hayward, for millsap, etc. than for putting up a shot every 2.39 minutes.
neither guy is the long-term answer if the jazz want to win a title, but calderon would have been a nice fit to help the young core grow.
mo is a scorer, and he'll help too... but in a completely different way from what you expect from your PG.
neither guy is the long-term answer if the jazz want to win a title, but calderon would have been a nice fit to help the young core grow.
mo is a scorer, and he'll help too... but in a completely different way from what you expect from your PG.
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
That should tell you how unappealing Calderon is.
He's been shopped longer than Harris, no one wants to pick him up for nothing, and isn't 5 times better than the washed up vets as his contract would lead you to believe.
You know this how? I'm sure they have both been on the shelves for teams to get for a while now.
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=mc-afterthebuzzer111210
He's been on the block for two years. The above is off season 2010. No one wanted to trade him. Harris did get traded.
And if you want to browse all of Calderon's trade rumors: https://hoopshype.com/rumors/tag/jose_calderon
He's been on the block for two years. The above is off season 2010. No one wanted to trade him. Harris did get traded.
And if you want to browse all of Calderon's trade rumors: https://hoopshype.com/rumors/tag/jose_calderon
All you Jefferson Derangement Syndromers better watch out if the Jazz somehow acquire/develope adequate outside shooting. How are you going to hate on Al when he has players to pass to who actually run plays and can shoot at a decent clip? Jefferson is going to become a stud if he's no longer guarded by four defenders because CJ, Raja, and Harris are playing grab *** at one wing location instead of spreading the floor.
I've long liked Calderon and have in the past gone to Raptors boards to see how they felt about him and while he wasn't exactly beloved, he was liked and never did I get any indication that the fanbase felt he sucked or was a bad fit like Harris is.
I haven't checked in a while, but Calderon isn't a bad fit anywhere and that's my concern with the PGs that the Jazz have. Mo is easily the best fit and he's hardly a point guard.
I haven't checked in a while, but Calderon isn't a bad fit anywhere and that's my concern with the PGs that the Jazz have. Mo is easily the best fit and he's hardly a point guard.
The year Lebron left (the year Mo was probably his most Point-Guardy) Mo averaged 7.1 assist with some of the worst players in basketball, only 1.8 assist off of Calderon's season high #. It's not like Calderon is head over heals better passer than Mo is.
Jose Calderon is head and shoulders a better point guard than Mo Williams is. And was.
I'm not going to check (I'm on a phone almost exclusively when I've been posting for the past 6 weeks), but I bet that Williams was basically the only player handling the ball on that team, his shooting was poor, and he turned the ball over a lot more than Calderon. I'm sure the ast% was not similar and that Calderon blew Mo out of the water in assist to turnover ratio (like he does nearly every year against nearly everyone).
I'm not going to check (I'm on a phone almost exclusively when I've been posting for the past 6 weeks), but I bet that Williams was basically the only player handling the ball on that team, his shooting was poor, and he turned the ball over a lot more than Calderon. I'm sure the ast% was not similar and that Calderon blew Mo out of the water in assist to turnover ratio (like he does nearly every year against nearly everyone).
P.S. This is probably one the dumbest/moot tangents this board has seen. I'm sorry if I've offended anyone for stating that the Jazz point guards either suck or aren't point guards and that Jose Calderon doesn't suck and is a point guard.
So yeah, be riled up about that, whoever.
So yeah, be riled up about that, whoever.
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
Before I actually go look up the numbers, you do realize the Jazz were in the top 10 in offense last year and near the bottom in defense last year, right? Calderon helps defense how?
jazzfan1971
Well-Known Member
Seriously? Have we been knocking Al Jefferson's ability to score? Al Scores just fine. He even passed the ball a lil last year. We complain because he doesn't draw fouls. Adding shooters isn't going to change that IMHO because it's just how he is, he avoids contact. I don't think there is anything that could change that at this point, it's second nature to him.
But, even that complaint is minor.
The real complaint about Jefferson is his work on the other end of the floor. And I don't see any of the moves we've made helping him much there. So, yeah, I'll keep wanting him gone. None of the changes we've made have changed that opinion a bit. For me to want to keep him he'd have to morph into a guy that attacks the rim when there is an opening and can provide average help/team defense.
I'm sorry I riled you up for my liking of Jose Calderon. But it's okay.
I'm not sure, but I THINK Franklin might be sarcastic. But I've been wrong before.
But good post. Having shooters won't change how often he draws fouls, help him make any impact whatsoever in transition (on either side of the ball), or do anything but be completely awful defending anyone in space.
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
Yes, because my wanting to do comparisons makes me riled up and lets you off the hook for answering questions about Calderon's defense. But it's okay.
You're obviously not a JDSer. Your criticisms are definitely valid but they are nowhere near capturing the rabid-in-comparison sentiment of this board. Maybe at RealGM but not here. Jefferson is seen as a cancer with negative value--NAOS and Numberica remind us of this every single day.
My comment was a little in your face-ish in a friendly way, but the content is 100 % correct--Jefferson's value will skyrocket if he's surrounded by shooters who actually run offensive sets. The SAS series offensive stagnation where Harris refused to attack, or 3 guards grouping up grab *** style on the opposite wing, magnified Jefferson's weaknesses to the point where many forum members have become blinded to Jefferson's true value. This board goes out of its way to blame Jefferson for things that are not his fault. Nobody can beat four defenders out of the post when the rest of the team clusters together in a spot impossible to pass to. Change these flaws and Jefferson becomes quite a useful player again (STRESSED: as a 2nd to 2/3rd option or a set number of situational/strategic plays thoughout the game).
NAOS
Well-Known Member
this qualifies your argument a lot.
Q: Are these strategic touches enough to make up for his ineffectiveness in defense and in transition (on both sides of the ball)?
A: No
This has crossed my mind. But I'm skeptical that handling the ball by committee is a championship strategy. We'll see I guess, and obviously, I'd love to be wrong.