Wes Mathews or Gordon Hayward

[Bronco70]

Only one thing to take into consideration we didn't have to sign Wes to the deal that the Blazers tendered. But, it seems that KOC's way of dealing with players is to let other teams set the market.

I think this is officially the first time you've ever written anything that I actually agree with. But you are right. If KOC deals with Matthews early, instead of letting him hang - giving Porkland enough time to extend an offer - there is a decent chance he stays for a reasonable salary.

 

[billyshelby]

I think this is officially the first time you've ever written anything that I actually agree with. But you are right. If KOC deals with Matthews early, instead of letting him hang - giving Porkland enough time to extend an offer - there is a decent chance he stays for a reasonable salary.

I don't know why this myth gets perpetuated. Wes' agent made it expressly clear he was testing free agency. No deal was getting done in advance.

 

[green]

I don't know why this myth gets perpetuated. Wes' agent made it expressly clear he was testing free agency. No deal was getting done in advance.

This. How dumb do you think Wes and/or his agent are? If you had the chance to make 3 million a year, with no deadline to sign the deal, wouldn't you call a couple other teams and see if you could double that? Wes Matthews was not coming to Utah for 3 million a year. Ask Cleveland how naive it is to believe that you can get a young, 2nd round pick for nothing if you just offer a contract early.

 

[Jeffrey32]

I would have kept both and been only another $2.5m into the luxury tax. On a per year basis Matthews is only about $2.5 more than Raja Bell. I would have signed Matthews, drafted Hayward, traded for Jefferson, not traded Deron Williams, and not signed Bell. All that and you are only $2.5m more into the luxury tax this season. That is a top 5 team in the West. Only effects years 4 and 5 after Bells contract expires, but Jefferson and Millsap contracts would be expired at that point too.

 

[//r00t 4 Jazz]

I don't know why this myth gets perpetuated. Wes' agent made it expressly clear he was testing free agency. No deal was getting done in advance.

Yep there was TONS and TONS and a whole heck of a lot too on this very subject during the Summer and early Fall months.
Agent = get player as much money as possible
+
KOC = get jazz best possible deal as possible

Sprinkle in Mathews was looking for his first major contract and was sure the Jazz would match (could tell by his somewhat stunned reaction they didn't) and you get what happened last summer. If Mathews would've told his agent to keep him in Utah then I'm sure KOC could've worked something out, and from everything I read and heard the agent was set on testing the market as any preliminary talks weren't productive.

 

[NCJazz]

I don't know why this myth gets perpetuated. Wes' agent made it expressly clear he was testing free agency. No deal was getting done in advance.

I think because Wes tried to make it sound like he would have taken less from the Jazz, but dont buy it. Wes is gone, most thought it the right decision at time. What happened with Wes going from undrafted to huge contract very very rare. Hayward looking pretty good now so let it go.

 

[Bronco70]

This. How dumb do you think Wes and/or his agent are? If you had the chance to make 3 million a year, with no deadline to sign the deal, wouldn't you call a couple other teams and see if you could double that? Wes Matthews was not coming to Utah for 3 million a year. Ask Cleveland how naive it is to believe that you can get a young, 2nd round pick for nothing if you just offer a contract early.

That is one theory, but at this point, it is strictly academic. After the fact, Wes made inferences that he had wanted to stay. Perhaps it was BS. I don't know. But I don't believe you know either. You're making assumptions too. The point is, had KOC tried to get something done early on, perhaps they could have worked something out. Or perhaps not. But again, nobody knows because he sat on his hands. If he makes an offer, and Wes leaves anyway, at least we know an attempt was made to keep him.

I don't believe for a second that all KOC had to do was make an offer, and the deal was done. But even a longshot gives you better odds than nothing at all.

 

[Stifle Tower]

I don't know why this myth gets perpetuated. Wes' agent made it expressly clear he was testing free agency. No deal was getting done in advance.

Exactly. It was the same with Millsap. Neither player was going to re-sign without at least trying to get another offer from someone. The Jazz actually won with CJ's offer. He thought he was worth more than what he ended up getting. Millsap came in a little more than expected, but not by much. It was the poison pill at the front that made Portland think Miller wouldn;t match. The size of Wes' offer surprised every GM around the league. It far exceeded what any undrafted player had ever received in his 2nd year.

 

[kabenac]

I say we somehow reacquire Matthews, just so we can create 'The Gordon and Wesley Show'. This sounds like some sort of turn of the century puppet show, which makes it awesome by default.

 

[Scorpjazz]

Hayward easily. People must be bored..

 

[billyshelby]

That is one theory, but at this point, it is strictly academic. After the fact, Wes made inferences that he had wanted to stay. Perhaps it was BS. I don't know. But I don't believe you know either. You're making assumptions too. The point is, had KOC tried to get something done early on, perhaps they could have worked something out. Or perhaps not. But again, nobody knows because he sat on his hands. If he makes an offer, and Wes leaves anyway, at least we know an attempt was made to keep him.

I don't believe for a second that all KOC had to do was make an offer, and the deal was done. But even a longshot gives you better odds than nothing at all.

It's not a theory. Wes' agent said, in the press, that Wes was going to test free agency. In fact, I believe KOC said he tried to discuss broad parameters for a deal prior to FA and Wes' agent shot it down. The "surprise" Wes expressed came after the Jazz didn't match, and his assertions that the Jazz "never made an offer" were very quickly shot down.

Wes got offered a lot of money. He signed an offer sheet without contacting the Jazz. He knew full well the financial situation of the Jazz. He wanted the money more than playing for the Jazz. Can't blame him.

 

[Bronco70]

I don't blame him.

I'd have done the same in that situation.

 

[billyshelby]

I don't blame him.

I'd have done the same in that situation.

So would I, but it does bring back the only aspect of negotiations that could technically be picked at.

Portland put a lavish offer sheet on the table. If Wes really wanted to play with the Jazz, he could have contacted them before signing it. He didn't. What's interesting about that choice is at the time he was signing on to be a backup. Roy and Batum were going to log the big minutes and he and Fernandez would fill in. You'd think a guy might want to leverage that offer with the Jazz where he would have likely started. Get a little less, get a much bigger role.

But Wes is definitely charmed. The 35 minute superstar gets hurt, the wunderkid struggles out of the gate badly, and Fernandez loses his shot.

Of course, next year Wes is back where he started. Batum, Wallace, and Roy will get the big minutes. That said, I expect something to break right for the kid.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Goodness. It isn't even close. Elder Hayward has 3x the potential Mathews has. Letting Mathews go and picking up Hayward was an absolute stroke of genius or the greatest piece of dumb luck.

I'll take the latter dumb luck.

 

[jimmyjazz]

It's not a theory. Wes' agent said, in the press, that Wes was going to test free agency. In fact, I believe KOC said he tried to discuss broad parameters for a deal prior to FA and Wes' agent shot it down. The "surprise" Wes expressed came after the Jazz didn't match, and his assertions that the Jazz "never made an offer" were very quickly shot down.

Wes got offered a lot of money. He signed an offer sheet without contacting the Jazz. He knew full well the financial situation of the Jazz. He wanted the money more than playing for the Jazz. Can't blame him.

Did Millsap not want to play for the Jazz because he had also singed an offer sheet with Portland?

Sure he obviously wanted as much money as he could but the reports back then were that Matthews was actually disappointed that the Jazz didn’t match. The Jazz situation was better for him as he was already starting while he would’ve been subbing for Roy (assumed then as healthy).

KOC’s philosophy with restricted free agents has always been to let the market set the price and then the Jazz will consider if they match. That was the case with CJ (Oklahoma), Sap and Wes.

It was never Wes vs Hayward. Even KOC said wait two years on Hayward.

It was Wes vs the Millers' cheapness – thus, behold Bell. It could've been Matthews and Hayward and no Bell.

 

[Hantlers]

Did Millsap not want to play for the Jazz because he had also singed an offer sheet with Portland?

Sure he obviously wanted as much money as he could but the reports back then were that Matthews was actually disappointed that the Jazz didn’t match. The Jazz situation was better for him as he was already starting while he would’ve been subbing for Roy (assumed then as healthy).

KOC’s philosophy with restricted free agents has always been to let the market set the price and then the Jazz will consider if they match. That was the case with CJ (Oklahoma), Sap and Wes.

It was never Wes vs Hayward. Even KOC said wait two years on Hayward.

It was Wes vs the Millers' cheapness – thus, behold Bell. It could've been Matthews and Hayward and no Bell.

The chances of us drafting a SG after signing a 2nd year player to a 35 million dollar deal are pretty slim. In fact, I'd say it's almost certain we don't draft Hayward if we signed Matthews, it just wouldn't make sense. We would've gone after a big man, you never draft to replace somebody you just gave a large contract too.

 

[franklin]

It was Wes vs the Millers' cheapness – thus, behold Bell. It could've been Matthews and Hayward and no Bell.

Please explain "the Millers' cheapness". Thanks.

 

[default]

I hope I end up proven wrong, but I'd say Wes.

 

[Scat]

I have to agree with Pearl and Log regarding Elder's ceiling. That being said, it would have been nice to have kept Matthews.

 

[Mission Accomplished]

If you look at Wes he now has a contract with the Trailblazers. Yet, he continues to reiterate that KOC did not offer him a contract. Now why would he do that. Let's look into other truths that KOC is trying to get us to believe. Korver said that he didn't even receive a call from KOC with a qualifying offer. When the press asked KOC he said that he had lost Korvers #. KOC denied that part of the reason that Sloan left was due to Dwill. Now AK is saying different.