What are the chances Utah Jazz (3rd) can swap picks with Minnesota (2nd)?
- Thread starter d@!!0n0rcutt
- Start date
I would do this trade in a second. Yes, we are giving up 8 spots just to move up one. But we get a franchise type of player, which is not available at #3. Right now there is poll going, which says Kanter should be #3. Kanter, the guy who has absolutely no credentials playing organized ball, missed a year of development, and whose best accomplishment (good numbers in U18 tournament in Europe, while winning MVP and leading his team to #3 spot) are inferior to these of Koufos (who also had better size and did not miss a year of development). In other words, Koufos-like project, perhaps slightly worse, is currently the choice of this board for #3. Yet at #2 we have a franchise type of player, who single handedly led his team to Elite 8 as a 19 year old, putting up great numbers. So difference between 2 and 3 is a difference between franchise guy and Koufos-like player. That's huge and worth a lot more than 8 spots later in the draft, when we are talking back-ups. Yes, we may lose out on Jimmer. But Jimmer could be gone before 12 or available at 20 anyway. Getting a franchise type of guy is a lot more important.
BENTLEY
Well-Known Member
See, people are still smarting from Koufos. They're down on Kanter because he looks similar to Kouf. Kouf was weak and couldn't hold position. Kanter is strong like bull. Also, Kanter is Turkish, not American-Greek.
margodydek
Well-Known Member
I'm still really high on Kanter. Not sure why people think he's going to be such a project. Granted he's been doing it against chairs for a while now, but he's got skills that will translate immediately. Face up jumper - check. Low post game/touch - check. Headsize - check. And while I think he's going to contribute decently enough on offense, I think his biggest skill is rebounding. Guy is going to own the glass. I keep going back and forth on Kanter/Williams, but either one I'd be excited for. But I do think there's a substantial drop-off from those two to Knight.
I think the player that Minnesota would get at the top of the draft is most likely a better player than anyone is going to give them in a trade. If Minny doesn't want Irving or Williams (which they should), they might flip a pick with someone else near the top of the lotto, like the Jazz or Cleveland, but I don't see the Wolves dropping more than a couple spots. If Minny wants to make a trade to bring in a vet or two, they can do that anytime. They shouldn't screw up their first draft in the top 3 because they want to bring in a vet.
I think the Wolves will keep the pick unless the Jazz offer them #3 and #12. That might be worth it for the Jazz, if Williams is there.
I think the Wolves will keep the pick unless the Jazz offer them #3 and #12. That might be worth it for the Jazz, if Williams is there.
I could see the Wolves being wiling to do this if they aren't high on Williams. The Jazz could then draft Selby or Brooks at 20. I think it would be worth it for the Jazz.
BENTLEY
Well-Known Member
I agree with every bit of this post.
Koufos' problem is not that he can't hold a position. He is just not skilled enough when faced with top notch NBA competition that athletic, fast, intelligent. Yet he was the absolute star in U18 European championship, putting up number better than Kanter. He was selected to a good European national team at young age. He has very good size. He did not lose a year of development like Kanter did. The point here is that Koufos was a also a decent prospect, and Kanter as a prospect is not better, not that they are both identical players, but similar type of prospects. Actually, Koufos was a better prospect due to better Euro numbers, better size, and the fact he did not ride a pine for a without playing at all. And that's a HUGE drop off from someone like Derick Williams, who actually has some great accomplishments against good competition. Kanter, like Koufos, is normally a late lottery - to early 20s type of prospect. Derick Williams is top 3 in most drafts. That's enormous difference. If we can exchange 12 for 20 to get Derrick, it's a no brainer if you ask me.
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What has Kanter done for you to claim Knight is a huge drop off? Think about this statement. What has Kanter ever done to claim he will be a star in NBA? There are a lot of guys out there who have good range, are strong, are big. Hell, go to NBDL, and you will find plenty of guys with good skills. That's not how you evaluate a player. You evaluate a player on how he was able to showcase these skills against serious top notch competition. And Kanter never played against half decent competition. His Euro accomplishments (U18 MVP showing) was eclipsed by Koufos, and every year there is several MVPs in Junior tournaments overseas. It's just not that significant. Knight is a huge drop off from Kanter? While Kanter was sitting on the bench for Knight's team, Knight, as a freshman, led his team to final 4. Yet Kanter, who has not done jack ****, is a significant upgrade? If Kanter is so great, you must have though Koufos should have gone #1 overall. Give me a break. You gotta guy who did absolutely nothing against any sort of decent competition, and you are proclaiming him the top of the draft? Because he played well against scrubs over a year ago (and not even as good as Koufos did). That's just ridiculous.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Good argument. Borat.
Yes to all those who have said 2-20 in exchange for 3-12. Williams can be a definite starter for Utah and also fills an immediate position of need with AK likely gone and CJ in his last year. That's a double bonus. Kanter hasn't played in a year, and his knee issues should be a real concern. Wouldn't you want to see if he can hold up for a full season? There will still be some good players available at 20. Jazz could treat it like a 2nd rounder, where they always seem to find value.
Yes to all those who have said 2-20 in exchange for 3-12. Williams can be a definite starter for Utah and also fills an immediate position of need with AK likely gone and CJ in his last year. That's a double bonus. Kanter hasn't played in a year, and his knee issues should be a real concern. Wouldn't you want to see if he can hold up for a full season? There will still be some good players available at 20. Jazz could treat it like a 2nd rounder, where they always seem to find value.
I am not even worried about Kanter's knees as much as I am worried about him not having any accomplishments at all against serious competition. And losing a year of development at young age. Why is Kanter a better prospect that Koufos, Podkolzine, Skita, Milicic? AK was Euro #1 rated player before he came to US, Gasol was MVP of the best Euro League, Dirk and Peja were stars in Europe, all at young age, before coming here. Kanter has not accomplished anything in Europe, has not done anything in US, and what he did at juniors in Europe is easily eclipsed by likes of Koufos. Why in the world is this guy being considered for #3 overall, when we have players with serious accomplishments at the same age, like Knight, against good NCAA competition in the draft?
Yep, Minny has to want Kanter over Derrick Williams. That, and Cleveland has to want Irving with the #1 pick.
jazzrule
Well-Known Member
They projected the Golden State pick at 11 and our pick at 12 for next years draft. Are you telling me you would not trade an eleven and twelve pick for probably a top 5 pick?
It's David Kahn, just promise him a point guard to be named later.
jazzyapma
Well-Known Member
i would trade them both for next year's top 5 pick in a blink of an eye, but not in 2011. I want Barnes, Miller or Gilchrist.
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Zerol
Active Member
The skills you described for Kanter are the same Koufos had when he came out of college, and heck he did it against NCAA competition.
I agree that if Williams is available we should definitely pick him over anybody else including Knight, but if you got to be joking about going back and forth on Kanter and Williams. Kanter had played ONE game in 2 years!! Anybody can do good and shoot lights out in workout - just ask Darko Milicic, Joe Dumars and Chad Ford. Williams destroyed a Duke team that was defending the NCAA title, coached by Coach K and added Irving, and that was only one of the best games he played in the 2 years when Kanter was sitting out competitive games.