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What does LeBron need to do to surpass Jordan?

Fabtrey said:
bron can surpass jordan's career by winning 7+ championships with more mvps, etc, etc.


but bron will never be jordan at playing the game of basketball.
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I guaranteed thay bron gets more mvps as long as he stays healthy
 
The NBA is tougher league to play in today. There are just many more highly skilled athletes in todays game who can rain down 3's.

I have not doubt in my mind that Lebron, Durant, and Curry, wouldn't have any problem dominating the **** out of Jordans era. I believe they would all average about 40 a game in Jordans era.

The game is advancing. It always has been.
 
Fabtrey said:
i'll give you that, but jordan basically didn't shoot 3's at all early in his career. shooting 3's wasn't even an option for him. part era, and part his playing style. no reason for him to shoot 3 when he could get to the hoop at will.
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That's certainly part of it, but it's also because he simply wasn't good at shooting the 3 till late in his career. If he was a good 3 point shooter, he would have taken more.
 
Hack said:
The NBA is tougher league to play in today. There are just many more highly skilled athletes in todays game who can rain down 3's.

I have not doubt in my mind that Lebron, Durant, and Curry, wouldn't have any problem dominating the **** out of Jordans era. I believe they would all average about 40 a game in Jordans era.

The game is advancing. It always has been.
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Get outta here.


from late 90's everything went downhill.

1. everybody wants to be like mike. bigs play like shooting guards.
2. players aren't tough anymore. too many damn flopping.
3. lack of fundamentals. too many 1 and dones, too many spoiled players who can't be coached
4. too many 'temptations'. IMO this is one of the most underrated thing about today's sports scene. internet era has changed our lives forever. it's hard to focus on just 1 thing
5. lack of great coaches. just look around the league.


and don't get me that 'today's players are bigger and faster' crap. just look at spurs today. fundamental and team work wins.


on paper Pistons we just demolished should be a good team. but what i watched today ain't NBA level basketball. go watch some of the bad teams today. plenty of athletes. but they just don't know how to play ball together.

97 or 98 jazz would be the best team in the NBA this year. jordan's bulls will break 72 games this year. show time lakers would toy with any team we have today.


it's a team game. there is a reason why our 'dream team' in 00's didn't bring the gold.
 
anyway of course bron will be great in any era. he is a transcendent talent. but he won't be as good because bron would have to face more teams like today's indiana pacers because 80's 90's had plenty of physical teams with size. and hand check era would bother bron. Bron naturally doesn't like contact. with his great size and strength, he never liked to play physical.



and you can't just look at the top talent and determine which era is better. you gotta look at the whole league. just look at the East this year.
 
spurs is the proof that athleticism is overrated. look at how tony parker plays. look at how old man duncan plays in the playoffs. and shooting more 3's doesn't mean you are better. many teams force 3's. good teams let 3's come to them. teams should too many damn 3's right now. when i see guys like Ibaka shoot 3's i cringe. i really do.

and this league has too many gerald greens. ask doc rivers about gerald green he will tell you he doesn't know how to play basketball. dude can jump out of the roof, but didn't know a thing about playing basketball. didn't know how to set screens. didn't know where to be. didn't know how to shoot. didn't know how to play D. he has slowly gotten better and now he finally resembles a basketball player. but he wasn't so just few years ago. took him long time. why? because guys like that work on dunks. guys like that didn't have enough coaching. guys like that never studied the game of basketball like they supposed to. James white is another example. this league has too many of them.

basketball is a simple game. play inside and out, play tough D, and move the damn ball. know your role, and don't do things that you don't know how to do especially during the game. it ain't practice. and @#$ck ISO crap @#4ck raining 20 3's every damn game. look at the rockets. on paper they are loaded. athletes and shooters everywhere. but they aren't going anywhere because balls don't move, supposedly the best center can't play in the post, and just too many damn harden ISO ball. watch them how they live and die by 3's. how in the world you score 73pts in the first half and 19 in the 2nd half? this league has turned into small ball league with too much dependant on 3s. that's why i like watching pacers. they remind me of 90's team.

it ain't nothing to do with nostalgia. i don't doubt players becoming more athletic. but my eyes don't lie. just look at us. on paper we have plenty of talent. take Trey out we can't win a damn game. i've seen so many bad basketball in past few years. pick & roll? what pick and roll? consistent post presence? lol i haven't seen that since karl left. defense? talk about lazy defense across the country. go watch some knicks and they will reveal what not to do defensively on almost every possessions.
 
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spycam1 said:
What if LeBron passes Kareem for most points scored all time? He's been the youngest to hit every point mark, so it's possible.
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.....it's NOT possible! Lebron is a forward/guard outside shooter and WILL NEVER catch Kareem or Malone with his type of game! Plus, you have the longevity factor which Lebron has NO CHANCE of equaling either one of those two players....in addition to Lebron's less than stellar free throw shooting. Lebron will top Jordan's stats but won't catch Jordan's championships or Kareem's and Malones points scored career totals. By the way, neither will Kobe.
 
durant is clear cut MVP right now. why? because he launches 25 shots and get his 30+ every night while carrying his team on his back.

MVP debate is kinda stupid because MJ will not lose an mvp battle against bron if they played in a same era. media/fans love scoring. MJ in this no touch era will get some serious superstar calls and will avg 35-40 and not even break a sweat. sure nba will give it to bron when they get tired of giving it MJ, but no doubt MJ will always be heavily favored.
 
Fabtrey said:
from late 90's everything went downhill.

1. everybody wants to be like mike. bigs play like shooting guards.
2. players aren't tough anymore. too many damn flopping.
3. lack of fundamentals. too many 1 and dones, too many spoiled players who can't be coached
4. too many 'temptations'. IMO this is one of the most underrated thing about today's sports scene. internet era has changed our lives forever. it's hard to focus on just 1 thing
5. lack of great coaches. just look around the league.


and don't get me that 'today's players are bigger and faster' crap. just look at spurs today. fundamental and team work wins.


....go watch some of the bad teams today. plenty of athletes. but they just don't know how to play ball together.

97 or 98 jazz would be the best team in the NBA this year. jordan's bulls will break 72 games this year. show time lakers or Larry Birds Celtics.....would toy with any team we have today.


it's a team game. there is a reason why our 'dream team' in 00's didn't bring the gold.
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...excellent post and agree with you 100%! Actually, it started before the 90's back to the days of Dr. J. who began to "glamorize" the dunks and the "taking over the game" and waving off picks so he could go "one on one!" Then you move up to the Iverson era, which was definitely worse than the Dr. J. era.....and both had similiar results.....lost 7 game series, and Dr. J. only one 1 championship on the coattails of Moses Malone! The term "uncoachable" was probably coined during the Dr. J. era when guys like World B Free, George McGinnis, and others like them refused to run plays and began "free lancing" out on the court despite the pleas of teammates and coaching personnel!
Another excellent point you made is that this idea that today's players are more "athletic" than back then.....which is completely hogwash! Nobody was more athletic than Dr. J. or David Thompson or even the Utah Jazz Ricky Green! In todays league you have some teams that you have on your schedule that are AUTOMATIC wins! The reason? Pathetically flawed in the fundamentals of the game!
 
Hack said:
The NBA is tougher league to play in today. There are just many more highly skilled athletes in todays game who can rain down 3's.

I have not doubt in my mind that Lebron, Durant, and Curry, wouldn't have any problem dominating the **** out of Jordans era. I believe they would all average about 40 a game in Jordans era.

The game is advancing. It always has been.
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....well, I'm very tempted to use that expression that contains the soft fuzzy stuff used for clothing, but I will refrain! Are you out of YOUR MIND? Back in Jordan's day you could "hand check!" Much more difficult to score than it is today! The defenses were better, more disciplined players, better strategic coaching, better shot blocking centers and forwards....NO WAY they could average 40 points a game! Heck, they'd probably score 5 points per game less than they're doing now against these chumps!
 
todays players are more skilled at

1. cross overs
2. step back
3. cross overs
4. flopping
5. varous variations of cross overs
6. between the leg dunks

so skillful.
 
Fabtrey said:
todays players are more skilled at

1. cross overs
(really a blatant palming of the ball!)
2. step back
3. cross overs
(really a flagrant palming of the ball!)
4. flopping
5. varous variations of cross overs
(I saw one yesterday by Parker of the Spurs that was a "carbon copy" of that "crab walk" that Lebron does where he ends up laying the ball into the basket....despite having taken 4 maybe 5 steps without dribbling the ball!)
6. between the leg dunks
(and they don't do that very good, either! Remember a few years ago that Robinson of the Knicks WON the dunk contest despite having missed 14 of 15 dunks! Great "athleticism" I say!)

so skillful.
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....it could be argued, and may I say successfully, that today's NBA players have less "athletic" ability than days gone by, simply because if they had to play within the framework of actual basketball "rules" it would be a turnover contest, with both teams averaging 30 of them, with some players averaging 8-10 per game! Oh, by the way, Durant had 11 TURNOVERS last night by himself....and the Thunder still won the game!
 
Defense was a lot more lenient than today, half of these guys get points off ticky-tack fouls. Guys like Mitch Richmond and Googz would be having heydays. Rod Strickland would look like Chris Paul.. Charles Oakley would be breaking jaws and Sam Perkins would be the next Kevin Love.
 
Fabtrey said:
todays players are more skilled at

1. cross overs
2. step back
3. cross overs
4. flopping
5. varous variations of cross overs
6. between the leg dunks

so skillful.
Click to expand...

Dont forget 3 pointers, overall athleticism, conditioning, knowledge of the game, etc..
 
Whats funny about this discussion is you guys are praising the same guy who played exactly the way you are critizing. Somehow you are pulling that all off in the same breath.

Jordan's ballhogingness is responsible for all the wannabe's you see in todays game and in the Iverson era.

look, I dont like chuckers and ball hoggers either. I dont care for guys like Melo, Iverson, Brandon Jennings, etc... I think they are bad for the game too.

But today's game has a lot of very good basketball players. Lebron in particular is the perfect model of a good basketball player. He is undoing the garbage effect that Jordan had on the game. Future generations will be passing more and playing with fundamentals because of him.

But somehow, Jordan is the hero here. He's not. He's just the first to ballhog and make it work. He played in a league where no one had seen this before. If Lebron, Kobe, and Wade played in his era they would have thrown a wrench into Jordan winning 6 rings, and if they each had a turn to trade places, they would have accomplished the same as Jordan.

You are just over romanticizing the past. Go back and watch some full real games. Its not as magical as you make it seem. The league had nowhere near the overall talent that it has today. The top players were great and would transcend to any era, but their counterparts would not. The simple fact of the matter is the NBA is worldwide and popular than ever. That means competition to get in is much stiffer and the understanding of basketball has advanced. Do really think nothing has been learned since then? You are high if you think that.
 
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