What Happened to Katie?

[Gameface]

Tolerance and understanding are equal to bring a bunch of pansies?

The bullied standing up for themselves and saying they don't want to put up with it anymore is a sign of cultural weakness?

I don't know what planet you guys are living on.

 

[fishonjazz]

Tolerance and understanding are equal to bring a bunch of pansies?

The bullied standing up for themselves and saying they don't want to put up with it anymore is a sign of cultural weakness?

I don't know what planet you guys are living on.

I think society is currently at a point where a lot of people believe that any slight about anything needs tons of attention and must be rectified and certainly NOT tolerated.

I kind of wish people could handle an insult by simply saying oh well, no harm no foul and moving on.

 

[Miggs]

I've heard before that suicide survivors (eg, guys who've jumped from bridges but lived) immediately after their attempt (a millisecond after the jump or after the slashing of the wrists, etc.) regret doing it.

It makes complete sense to me and quite frankly, those stories need to be told to those who need to hear it. High school and college kids as two examples. I think it shows how much we inherently recognize the value of life and it also shows how quickly our feelings can subside and that pain, even in the emotionally anguished, can be temporary and not permanent.

 

[Gameface]

I think society is currently at a point where a lot of people believe that any slight about anything needs tons of attention and must be rectified and certainly NOT tolerated.

I kind of wish people could handle an insult by simply saying oh well, no harm no foul and moving on.

I guess it really depends on who's being insulted. I think and have seen that those who perceive themselves to be on top don't handle insult well at all. They instantly want to address any perceived slight. Seems they feel that's an important part of maintaining their status. But I guess it gets tiring when even the second class citizens start acting the way the first class citizens have always acted.

 

[sirkickyass]

I guess it really depends on who's being insulted. I think and have seen that those who perceive themselves to be on top don't handle insult well at all. They instantly want to address any perceived slight. Seems they feel that's an important part of maintaining their status. But I guess it gets tiring when even the second class citizens start acting the way the first class citizens have always acted.

#MakeAmericaGreatAgain

 

[RandyForRubio]

I don't want this to come off as offensive, because I am genuinely curious what people think.

I read that 40% of transgendered attempt suicide. Read somewhere else that 20% of homosexuals attempt suicide. I think the average for non-LGBT is 4-5% in regards to suicide attempts. 40% is an astronomical figure. Should we assume that all of that is because of bullying, not fitting into typical culture, etc etc, or should we look at it from a mental problem as well? Fwiw, 40% of people with schizophrenia attempt suicide as well. I think it's important to have the distinction made so we can help people as best that we can.

 

[JimLes]

Fwiw, 40% of people with schizophrenia attempt suicide as well.

You think everyone with schizophrenia who attempts suicide does so because schizophrenia makes them do it and not because of the way we treat people with schizophrenia?

 

[RandyForRubio]

You think everyone with schizophrenia who attempts suicide does so because schizophrenia makes them do it and not because of the way we treat people with schizophrenia?

I never said that, it was just another example. But no, I would not say 40% of people attempt suicide because they get bullied. Maybe I'm wrong, but statistically that just seems out of whack.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Well, yes. Get with the times, as they say. My life is infinitely better than that of my grandparents or great-grandparents, and as a result, I don't need to be as "tough" as them. Actually, it'd be stupid for me to be as tough as them. I don't work through severe cuts or let them get infected. I see a doctor. I don't walk for 2 days to testify in a minor trial like my great-grandma did because I have a car. I haven't fought in a war because my parents made the awesome choice to move to Canada. Surely these are all good things.

My ancestors weren't tough for toughness sake. They were tough because they had to be. My grandfather was born a subsistence farmer's son. He didn't own a pair of shoes until he was 14 or 15. He got married at 19 and was drafted into a German satellite army by the time he was 20. Before he would've been old enough to drink in current USA, he had deserted that army to go join a rag-tag bunch of rebels in the forest. He went to law school at 36. His life became infinitely better and easier. And yes, he became less tough. I remember him as an old man watching cartoons with me and teaching me how to do crossword puzzles. He was no Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino, but I don't think he felt bad about becoming "a pansy."

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. Last week I climbed and skied down two volcanoes. One of the guys who was with me had previously shattered his ankle in a climbing accident but he toughs it out regularly, walking up huge hills that he doesn't have to, because becoming soft is the last thing he'd ever want to do. He impresses the hell out of me.

I'm glad that my good life has afforded me the free time to be tough. You are apparently happy for the opposite reason.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Tolerance and understanding are equal to bring a bunch of pansies?

The bullied standing up for themselves and saying they don't want to put up with it anymore is a sign of cultural weakness?

I don't know what planet you guys are living on.

I doubt that this transgendered issue ever played a meaningful role in people's lives outside of the last three or four generations. So yeah, one approach is to feel terrible about the pain and anguish that this currently tiny minority of people are going through. But what's so terrible about asking what the hell are we doing that's creating a culture where an ever increasing number of people are so busy getting their feelings hurt or worrying that other people are getting their feelings hurt? I can guarantee you that when we resolve this issue there will be another even stranger one coming down the pike. A little toughness would go an awful long way.

Obviously to some people it seems tolerant and understanding to invite transgenders into the restroom or shower of their choice, and to force others to accept that mentality. To me it seems like inviting trouble for no good reason. IMO, if you have a penis you should not be in a public restroom with my daughter. That might sound insensitive to people who have penises and dream of having vaginas instead, but everyone is going to have to live with getting their feelings hurt in this world sometimes, and in this case it is worth hurting a few feelings if it also keeps sexual deviants out of the girls locker room.

 

[JimLes]

I'm glad that my good life has afforded me the free time to be tough. You are apparently happy for the opposite reason.

Must be nice to be able to choose to be tough. I didn't have that choice. I lived through a brutal ethnic war when I was still a kid. My dad was in the army for three years. I only saw him every couple of months when he was on leave. I used to dread the sound of our phone ringing because I always assumed it'd be someone calling to tell us he was killed. Luckily, he wasn't. My mum's brother was, though. This was all before I even hit my teens. But yeah, I hope you can understand that I'm not really into volcanoes or other first-world boredom cures that add adversity to your otherwise boring life. I had enough adversity for a life time. Forgive me for wanting my life to be easy and not really seeing the point of "making myself tougher," but I think I've paid my dues. And I don't care if that makes me a pansy.

 

[JimLes]

and in this case it is worth hurting a few feelings if it also keeps sexual deviants out of the girls locker room.

Of course. All transgender people are sexual deviants. And no woman could possibly be.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Must be nice to be able to choose to be tough. I didn't have that choice. I lived through a brutal ethnic war when I was still a kid. My dad was in the army for three years. I only saw him every couple of months when he was on leave. I used to dread the sound of our phone ringing because I always assumed it'd be someone calling to tell us he was killed. Luckily, he wasn't. My mum's brother was, though. This was all before I even hit my teens. But yeah, I hope you can understand that I'm not really into volcanoes or other first-world boredom cures that add adversity to your otherwise boring life. I had enough adversity for a life time. Forgive me for wanting my life to be easy and not really seeing the point of "making myself tougher," but I think I've paid my dues. And I don't care if that makes me a pansy.

I have a feeling we're doing an excellent job of talking past one another. Regardless, I admire you for overcoming such adversity. I obviously didn't know that about you. Clearly we have very different goals at this point in our lives. I have probably mischaracterized yours. You have definitely mischaracterized mine. Oh well, peace.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Of course. All transgender people are sexual deviants. And no woman could possibly be.

I'm not suggesting that any transgender people are sexual deviants, but allowing biological males into a women's restroom does not seem like a very smart move to me. What do you think the sexual predators will do when you give them an invitation like this? It is not difficult to find examples of males who go to great lengths to sexually stalk women. Why make it so easy?

I'm not aware of the problems of women sexually stalking other women. What am I overlooking? You ought to be able to come up with a ton of examples if this is a legit problem because women have been using women's restrooms with other women for generations.

 

[fishonjazz]

Of course. All transgender people are sexual deviants. And no woman could possibly be.

I don't think he meant it that way.
More like, if we let people with penises into girls bathrooms because they identify as a woman then any real perv with a dick could go into a women's bathroom for the wrong reason and simply use the excuse that they identify as a woman.

 

[fishonjazz]

I'm not suggesting that any transgender people are sexual deviants, but allowing biological males into a women's restroom does not seem like a very smart move to me. What do you think the sexual predators will do when you give them an invitation like this? It is not difficult to find examples of males who go to great lengths to sexually stalk women. Why make it so easy?

You beat me to it

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

You beat me to it

Guaranteed that some guy goes into the women's restroom and sets up a system to video the women in the adjacent stalls. Next a lawsuit will be brought against the owner of the restroom in some prominent case and a huge reward will be given. The lawyers will make a killing. Sir Kicky (or someone like him) will then show up and explain to us how this extremely large settlement was necessary to send a message to the owner of the restroom (since the actual perp was destitute and couldn't really be punished financially) and explain how important it is that the law works for all of us in this way. Not long afterward we will all be complaining about how most companies have locked their restrooms to the public, set up a fee system which involves an application, and/or created cumbersome restroom reservation rules. Depends stock will skyrocket. In other words, buy now.

 

[JimLes]

I'm not aware of the problems of women sexually stalking other women. What am I overlooking? You ought to be able to come up with a ton of examples if this is a legit problem because women have been using women's restrooms with other women for generations.

And pedophiles have been using male bathrooms with kids they'd like to molest for generations, too. What evidence is there that a heterosexual pedophile is more likely to dress in drag in order to molest a girl than a homosexual pedophile is to simply walk into the same bathroom he always goes to molest a boy? But we're not freaking out and trying to figure out how to prevent that happening.

The issue isn't whether someone could possibly, hypothetically use this law to help them fulfill whatever urges. The issue is how likely that is to happen and whether a law can be disqualified solely on the basis of how it might hypothetically be abused.

Also, what exactly is stopping me from dressing up as a woman and going to the women's bathroom and ogling women right now? Do they do a penis check at the door? How are all these pedophiles not already doing this?

 

[JazzGal]

Men have always been able to walk into women's restrooms. There aren't armed guards. People have always been able to use the restroom of their gender identity. There have been few problems in the past. This will solve nothing and cause more problems. I would imagine that someone like Caitlyn Jenner walking into a men's restroom or Chaz Bono walking into a women's room would freak out more people than the other way around.

Fear is a horrible reason to discriminate.

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[fishonjazz]

Also, what exactly is stopping me from dressing up as a woman and going to the women's bathroom and ogling women right now? Do they do a penis check at the door? How are all these pedophiles not already doing this?

Nothing is stopping you but if you get caught then you are in trouble at least.

If penises are allowed in the women's bathroom then if you got caught you simply say that you identify as a woman, everyone apologizes to you (wouldn't want to offend you), and you go back to your pervertedness undeterred.