What type of asset is Hayward?
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b_line
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So..... Do you think turner is better than Hayward?
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If you think Hayward had a lot of buyers when every GM in the league knew that Turner could be had at 1/10th the price, then you're stupider than I thought you were.
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thanks to Doublea for bringing me back to this thread so that I could re-read this part of your excellent post.... which fails to mention that I negged you after you negged me. But, yeah, toss it back to me when you get a sec.
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fishonjazz
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Similar age
Similar size
Both play sg and sf (both are wings)
both are good at alot of thing and niether are great at anything.
I think its a very good comparison
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Well-Known Member
36.2 5.5-13.3 .413 1.1-3.6 .309 4.0-4.9 .816 0.8 4.2 5.0 5.2 0.5 1.5 2.0 2.7 16.1
34.9 6.6-15.4 .428 0.7-2.4 .288 3.5-4.2 .829 0.9 5.0 6.0 3.7 0.1 1.0 2.7 2.9 17.4
one of these players was acquired for a ham sandwich. After some negotiations, philly decided to throw in some dijon mustard.
34.9 6.6-15.4 .428 0.7-2.4 .288 3.5-4.2 .829 0.9 5.0 6.0 3.7 0.1 1.0 2.7 2.9 17.4
one of these players was acquired for a ham sandwich. After some negotiations, philly decided to throw in some dijon mustard.
da ThRONe
Active Member
I think the misconception is that because Philly just gave Turner away that means there was no market for Hayward. Only one team was going to get Turner all the other teams that missed out had to be prepared to pay more. It's like black Friday sales sure it's great if you can get that flat screen for bargain price however if you don't and you want a flat screen you have to be prepared to pay regular price.
Jazz4ever
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Here is why Hayward will ultimately gets his big payday.
2011 CBA: Teams must spend at least 85 percent of the cap in 2011-12 and 2012-13, and at least 90 percent of the cap in later years of the agreement.
Free agent list, Hayward looking like the 2nd or 3rd best once all the old all stars are resigned from their respective teams.
https://hoopshype.com/free_agency_2014.htm
2011 CBA: Teams must spend at least 85 percent of the cap in 2011-12 and 2012-13, and at least 90 percent of the cap in later years of the agreement.
Free agent list, Hayward looking like the 2nd or 3rd best once all the old all stars are resigned from their respective teams.
https://hoopshype.com/free_agency_2014.htm
GVC
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Teams don't actually have to hit the salary floor. It will have no bearing on Gordo's contract.
fishonjazz
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so owners can't horde money. They're paying 90% no matter what.
It's a bit of a stimulus to the NBA economy. It keeps spending from freezing.
GVC
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Absolutely. They're not going to sign someone to an above-market long-term deal that could affect their long-run cap flexibility just to hit the no-penalty salary floor in the short-term. Doesn't make any sense.
Not that it matters though; the Jazz are in no risk of being below the floor next season. Look how easy it was to get to the floor this season without hurting their long-term cap flexibility.
Jazz4ever
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But....there are no fat contracts under the old CBA left. And more importantly no teams giving away multiple first round picks to take them. Teams will either take a chance on Hayward or sign vets like Jefferson and Marvin to 8-10 million one year deals. Look around some of these teams rosters and you will see they just don't have the young talent that Hayward could interfere with.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Or teams can sign FA's to one-year deals to get to the floor if they desire. There will be a few teams that will consider Hayward this summer. IMO, the year he's had will have little affect on his value. It won't raise it, like he had hoped, but it's not going to crash it, either. In the end, I think a deal comes in at slightly under what Favors got (because bigs get more $), which was likely what Utah had offered him.
GVC
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and? The salary floor still shouldn't have any effect on what Gordo is offered. If teams have plenty of cap space moving forward and think Gordo is the best use of that space, they'll pay him more, sure, but they won't throw extra money at him just to get to the no-penalty floor. Again, doing that can only hurt teams.
Also, what do you mean by "But....there are no fat contracts under the old CBA left."? Year limits went down by one, but max contracts didn't change as a percentage of the cap by service time.
Jazz4ever
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No, but reckless contracts, not just max, were happening in the first place thanks to the lax luxury tax. Hording cash was an option for some of the smaller markets because it could get you something at the deadline under the past CBA, but will be pretty worthless going forward. So that's a stronger factor than the rising floor. However the cap rising 4 million is big, and will make teams spend a little more this year than the last two. Can we put you on record for a prediction of what Hayward gets offered?
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I think owners have until the deadline to reach the salary floor. If so, then you can still leave a big sum under the floor and use it to bail out a team at the deadline.
GVC
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The worst contracts always seemed to be the ones where teams were signing away other teams' free agents. As such, those teams were well below the luxury tax (as the LT threshold is well above the salary cap). Based on what you said earlier, the higher floor should lead to larger contracts for players being signed by teams with lots of cap space. Not terribly important. The reduction by 1 year in contracts should have a bigger effect than the LT penalties (for most teams, anyway). Also, teams are more insulated from bad contracts now, as they can always use the stretch provision.
It can still get you something at the deadline. Again, the salary floor isn't a floor at all. Teams can play a whole season with nothing but minimum contract players. They can acquire more salary for nothing in trades up until the deadline or through the signing of free agents beyond the deadline.
I really don't see any reason why teams would sacrifice long-term flexibility to stay above a no-penalty salary floor. With that said, we might see some large contracts being signed, especially by teams with a lot of upcoming draft picks, because contracts are shorter AND teams can always use the stretch provision if they want to cut a "useless" player with a bloated contract to spread his cap hit over multiple seasons.
I don't have a clue. I don't know nearly enough about this year's free agent market or the needs and cap situation of other teams. If he gets a big contract, it's unlikely to have anything to do with the salary floor.
billyshelby
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I have no doubt GVC is right on the cap specifics (and thanks for the education GVC). I'm just surprised that there are any limitations trading players going into the draft. Logically, teams would benefit from being able to trade RFA players to another team that covets them more before/as they draft (even if the risk of acquiring an RFA player would inherently lower his value in trade.)
In that construct, interested teams (like Boston) might actually offer more with the security of an S&T. So by waiting, Lindsey holds the cards by having cap space to trump RFA offers and gets better value in return, just not 2014 draft picks. Interesting.
In that construct, interested teams (like Boston) might actually offer more with the security of an S&T. So by waiting, Lindsey holds the cards by having cap space to trump RFA offers and gets better value in return, just not 2014 draft picks. Interesting.