What's new

When will Hayward surpass AK47 as the 2nd best Jazz SF of All Time?

You're talking about 2 different Kirilenko's. The before playing against Tracy McGrady in the playoffs Andrei, and the post playing McGrady.

lmao, excuses I see. AK had some great defensive games, he was never a consistent lockdown defender.
 
Sloan had lost the script with AK and that team. There was a championship caliber roster, being pushed in the wrong directions. The league had changed, the rules had changed, but the coaching while still motivationally effective - was playing by old rules.

Nothing epitomizes this better than a story that Jeff Hornacek told when he was trying to work with Kirilenko as an assistant coach. Hornacek was talking about how he asked AK to guard him, and AK bodied up on him really closely and fouled him. And Hornacek was like, "What are you doing?" And Kirilenko said that was how Coach Sloan wanted them to defend, get up in their grill and put a body on them. Hornacek said, maybe for the rest of the team, but with your length you need to step back because you can still block the shot. And that stepping back would give your more time to stop dribble penetration, which you should focus on because you have long enough arms you can already block their jumper. Hornacek said, that explained to him why AK was blocking so many people from behind because he was guarding them too close to start with - but that was under Sloan's orders. Almost everything Sloan did with that roster has been proven demonstrably wrong.

1. Deron Williams - was the Jazz' offensive powerhouse, he could score inside and out, and was one of the biggest and strongest post up guards in the league. But, he couldn't be the leading scorer on the team, because he was the point guard. And the Jazz couldn't run post up plays for their biggest mismatch on a nightly basis, because he was a PG, and posting up and scoring inside is naturally the job of the Power Forward. Now, once DWill was with the Nets and allowed to post up smaller guards, and score as much as he wanted it came as no surprise that he had a 57 point game, also Deron's top 5 years in 3 pointers made are with non-Utah teams. He was making more 3's because he was able to take more, and post-up in the paint so teams have to guard him differently. Which brings us to...

2. Carlos Boozer. His best game was facing the basket, and taking 12-18 footers. He would have been a terrific 3rd option on offense, and a last option on defense. As it was, he was posting up with his back to the basket. This is usually meant him taking several dribbles until he got into the 12-18 foot range and was facing the basket at which point he would routinely drain a jumper.

3. Mehmet Okur - arguably the best shooter in this group, and the Spurs killer de jour. Memo was not only the team's best 3 point shooter, but also a terrific free throw shooter, routinely at over 80%. He easily should have been the first or second option. What he wasn't great at was shot blocking. So, why did the Jazz run a defensive scheme designed around funnelling opposing guards down the middle towards the hoop????? - where Memo and Boozer were waiting? I mean that kind of scheme makes a ton of sense when you've got Mark Eaton and Mailman patrolling the paint, or even Ostertag. But, Memo and Boozer? often times, our defense killed us when the players WERE executing it.

4. Andrei Kirilenko - perhaps the most misused piece on this team. Kirilenko was probably best utilized when Sloan was forced to play him at defacto Point Guard because of injuries. If AK were entering the league today, we would be looking at his potential as STRETCH FOUR or a POINT-FORWARD. Kirilenko was the best post passer on this roster. He could dump the ball down perfectly to anyone in the paint. Problem is, he wasn't in a position to pass the ball and our best post up player (DWill) was often camped out behind the arc. In the meantime the best roaming defense in the league was not allowed to roam (alla John Stockton) because Kirilenko hadn't earned that yet, or some such nonsense.

5. Paul Millsap - it was a brainless tradition that Tyrone Corbin continued even after Sloan left. 3 pointers were bad for business, and you especially didn't shoot them if you were a Power Forward. You'd think the Miracle in Miami night would have been a clue, when Millsap lit up the heat going 3 for 3 and scoring 11 points in 28 seconds - you'd think the Jazz coaching staff might have seriously reconsidered Millsap's role as a 3 point shooter, but no. It wasn't until he went to Atlanta that he started making 3's on a regular basis, which was also when he was able to score easier inside because opponents had to guard him differently, and then he got his first All-Star nod. Meanwhile in Utah, we were wondering if he could ever play on the floor with Favors - completely unaware that he had a 3 point game.

I'm sure there is an alternate universe out there, where Deron and Memo were our leading scorers, Kirilenko lead the Jazz in assists, blocks, and steals, and the Jazz played defensive schemes oriented around using the length of DWill, Ronnie Brewer, AK and Millsap to put pressure on the passing lanes, force turnovers and create fast break opportunities. The Jazz then made multiple trips to the WCF, and maybe beyond.

All that being said, in a best of the Jazz history matchup.
You take Gobert, I'll take Gobert.
You take Malone, I'll take Malone.
You take Stockton, I'll take Stockton.
You take Maravic. I'll take Maravic.
You take Hayward, and I'll take Kirilenko.

And we will mop the floor with you.

the idea of AK again.
 
Sloan had lost the script with AK and that team. There was a championship caliber roster, being pushed in the wrong directions. The league had changed, the rules had changed, but the coaching while still motivationally effective - was playing by old rules.

Nothing epitomizes this better than a story that Jeff Hornacek told when he was trying to work with Kirilenko as an assistant coach. Hornacek was talking about how he asked AK to guard him, and AK bodied up on him really closely and fouled him. And Hornacek was like, "What are you doing?" And Kirilenko said that was how Coach Sloan wanted them to defend, get up in their grill and put a body on them. Hornacek said, maybe for the rest of the team, but with your length you need to step back because you can still block the shot. And that stepping back would give your more time to stop dribble penetration, which you should focus on because you have long enough arms you can already block their jumper. Hornacek said, that explained to him why AK was blocking so many people from behind because he was guarding them too close to start with - but that was under Sloan's orders. Almost everything Sloan did with that roster has been proven demonstrably wrong.

4. Andrei Kirilenko - perhaps the most misused piece on this team. Kirilenko was probably best utilized when Sloan was forced to play him at defacto Point Guard because of injuries. If AK were entering the league today, we would be looking at his potential as STRETCH FOUR or a POINT-FORWARD. Kirilenko was the best post passer on this roster. He could dump the ball down perfectly to anyone in the paint. Problem is, he wasn't in a position to pass the ball and our best post up player (DWill) was often camped out behind the arc. In the meantime the best roaming defense in the league was not allowed to roam (alla John Stockton) because Kirilenko hadn't earned that yet, or some such nonsense.

All that being said, in a best of the Jazz history matchup.
You take Gobert, I'll take Gobert.
You take Malone, I'll take Malone.
You take Stockton, I'll take Stockton.
You take Maravic. I'll take Maravic.
You take Hayward, and I'll take Kirilenko.

And we will mop the floor with you.

Jerry Sloan is a good coach for the 80's and 90's, but when they made zone defense legal in the early 2000's and when most teams had 3pt shots in their normal offensive rotation, he didn't budge. Jerry was the worst coach we could have had coaching the Williams/Okur/AK/Boozer group. We did pretty well with Williams (new Stockton), and Boozer (new Malone) but Jerry has never had players to coach like Okur or AK. He severely under utilized their strengths and made AK extremely frustrated. It literally broke him as a player.
 
The HOF coach should have played more through the guy who had no scoring ability outside of broken plays and garbage points.
 
Regardless of who's better AK or Hayward (it's Hayward btw), you would be crazy wanting AK over Hayward on this team, or most other teams.
 
Do you watch the games or do you simply rely on stats for your opinions? No way is Hayward a poor defender.

5 years in a row can't even crack top 30 SF list in DRPM. Yet some of you still think he is good defender. And yes I watch the games and Hayward should never ever be compared to AK on defense.
 
Regardless of who's better AK or Hayward (it's Hayward btw), you would be crazy wanting AK over Hayward on this team, or most other teams.
Siro, I love you man but you are dead wrong here. Prime AK on this years Jazz team would improve us in so many ways that Haywards scoring would not be missed at all.
 
The HOF coach should have played more through the guy who had no scoring ability outside of broken plays and garbage points.

Nobody is saying he should have played more through AK. But he failed to put him in position which would be most beneficial for the team. AK standing in the corner and clearing space for Deron and Boozer pick and roll is not the best AK you can get. But even Sloan admitted that he mishandled AK and had no clue how to use his talent.
 
5 years in a row can't even crack top 30 SF list in DRPM. Yet some of you still think he is good defender. And yes I watch the games and Hayward should never ever be compared to AK on defense.

I think prime AK instead of Lyles would be amazing. :p
 
Back
Top