Where does Utah fit in the West?

[green]

David Locke brought up a valid point tonight that I will get to in a minute. Right now, in the West, teams and their stars shake out like this:

GS: Curry, Thompson, Green (as good as Curry is, and he is great, having three stars vs every one else's two puts GS on another level)
SA: Leonard, Aldrich
OKC: Westbrook, Durant
LAC: Paul, Griffin
Portland: Lillard
Houston: Howard, Harden
Kings: Cousins
Pelicans: Davis
Timberwolves: Towns

There are NINE teams that have legit stars on their teams. We don't have one.

And no. Hayward isn't on the level of any of the players above. And Gobert is not on Hayward's level.

The Jazz are in a big hole talent wise, which is what Locke's point was. He said that we just expect Utah to make the playoffs next year, but the reality is, Sacramento, NO and Minnesota have the three best bigs in the NBA.

With Minnesota hiring Thibbs, I'd be on them making the playoffs over Utah next year. They have star talent. We don't.

If Exum doesn't become a Lillard level player, we might not make the playoffs for a long, long time.

You guys stupidly mock me for suggesting trades for players like Love, but if we don't get a star, we are not going anywhere soon. We don't have a star and the closest thing we have to a star is Hayward...and he has taken us nowhere. He is a very, very good player. Just not a good enough player.

We need a star. I'd trade Favors, Hood, Burks, and our pick for Cousins.

I'd trade Favors, Burks, Burke and our pick for Love.

I'd trade anyone for Harden. I'd trade our whole team for Towns.

If we don't get a star, we ain't going nowhere. It is what it is. This is the NBA and unless you have a star, you don't have a future.

 

[spycam1]

We can make the playoffs without a star; we just won't win it all without one.

I agree with the general notion that we should be looking to trade our B pieces for an A piece (or a potential A piece, ala Ben Simmons).

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

 

[Lost_Jazz_Fan]

I'd love to get a PG of Lillard's caliber.

I don't know if we need a bonafide star, I think it can be done with a more team based approach (read San Antonio). The problem with that theory is you have to have the right combination of players and youth/veteran talent to make it work. We always seem to be leaning too far in one direction or the other and it always leaves us on the outside looking in or clawing for a 1st round exit as the 8th seed.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Nice post, Green.
Bout time.

 

[Carbon13]

This is a good post but I disagree about Gobert being less good than Hayward. I think Gobert is a unique talent. In my opinion, the only hope we have is to emulate the 2004 Pistons and the 2014 Spurs. Prolly not gonna happen but that's the model we have to chase.

 

[Crawlnstall]

I feel like everyone on here knows this, it's good that Locke is putting it out there too.
I really expect Minny to take off next year and be better than us. We have some really great talent and a great coach...but we dont have that go to guy.
I use to think Favors could turn into that guy but he seems to either take plays off or just not have the 'it' factor to make him a star, cause the guy has all the tools to be an All Star.
I use to think Burks could turn into that guy too, and I'm a huge Burks fan, but I think he will be a more solid 6th man, which is fine we need that kind of guy.

Long story short I'd give up a lot of players for that star. I think most would agree with me on it, the problem is finding that star, teams arent parting with guys like that

 

[Cappy_Smurf]

I feel like we fit somewhere between Nevada and Colorado, and maybe a little south of Idaho.

 

[NAOS]

I love the times of year where Locke goes all limp on our talent. It makes the bullish times that much moar fun!

 

[Chargers Jazz Angels]

I will agree and disagree with you green. Yes a star is important but a leader is more valuable. The warriors are NOT currys team they are greens team. He is the leader. Green leads by example. He is the kind of player that makes every one around him better.

The jazz team is just too dang passive. No one has that fire. Grab you by the collar anf kick you butt if you are slacking.

That is the only reason i might not want cousins. He is the type of player that is amazing if he has a green to play with.

I think now is the time for the jazz to roll the dice with a move in the offseason.

 

[Bodhi]

Aldridge not Aldrich.

Unless......

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

I 100% disagree with all of this. Yes, min sac and NO have a star, but the rest of our talent trumps theirs, and it's only going to get better by a mile. Let's look at a few things.

1. If not for the injuries, there was potential for this team to be as high as a 4-5th seed in the west while being the 4th youngest team in the league.

2. We have damn good three man rotations at every spot on this team

Bigs. Gobert Favors Lyles.

Wing. Hayward Hood Burks

Pg. Exum Mack Burks. (Not ready to include Neto in that.)

3. We don't know yet how good Exum Gobert Hood And Lyles will be. I believe in Exum, and think he will be the cream of the crop, and even if he doesn't reach his full potential, he will be an upper echelon pg in this league. Gobert will be a defensive star and make several allstar games because of it. I can see Hood being one of the top clutch performers in crunch time as a closer. Lyles could be an absolute assassin on offense. Think a juiced up Ryan Anderson. As a 19 year old rookie he showed how easy he can score in a variety of different ways, just think of what he'll do when he's 23 let alone 28-30.

4. Along with all the players I mentioned in #3 there's Hayward. He averaged closer to 20 points then 19. Favors is one of the best 2 way players in the league. He along with Hayward are close to allstar caliber. Burks when healthy was an elite bench scorer, and great at creating his own offense.

5. We have lots of cap room. The Jazz at some point can replace some of the lesser talent with upgrades. We have good players on bargain deals. (Favors and Burks) this should help us be even more flexible and make it easier to know who to keep and who to trade for younger assets so we can keep the cupboards stocked with talented players on manageable contracts. The Jazz are set up to be good for a long time.

6. We have a very good young coach that like the young players are trying to learn to be good while being talented. Like the players Q is a talented young coach learning as he goes, who has shown to be a great teacher and developer of young talent, and will only get better at cultivating his system.

These are just some of the positives. They are far more numerous then the negatives. As I wrote above the biggest negative could be fixed from within the talent pool we have now.

I didn't hear what Locke said that made green start this thread, but both he and grean are overreacting badly. This org is in a great place. Better then both Sac and NO for sure, star or no star and probably better off then min.

Hope this helped a few fans clime off the edge of the bridge. Life in Jazz land is good. All aboard on the Jazz train. Who's with me. I'm driving this bitch!!

 

[green]

Nice post, Green.
Bout time.

A broken clock is right twice a day.

 

[akirac73]

David Locke brought up a valid point tonight that I will get to in a minute. Right now, in the West, teams and their stars shake out like this:

GS: Curry, Thompson, Green (as good as Curry is, and he is great, having three stars vs every one else's two puts GS on another level)
SA: Leonard, Aldrich
OKC: Westbrook, Durant
LAC: Paul, Griffin
Portland: Lillard
Houston: Howard, Harden
Kings: Cousins
Pelicans: Davis
Timberwolves: Towns

There are NINE teams that have legit stars on their teams. We don't have one.

And no. Hayward isn't on the level of any of the players above.

This is why I don't foresee Hayward ever becoming an All-Star (playing in the west, at least). Pretty much every player you listed should be a "lock" for the all-star team except for Dwight Howard and KAT (although he likely won't remain in this category for too long), and that leaves us with 13 players fighting for 12 roster spots. Someone better than Hayward is gonna get snubbed. And we haven't even brought up "second tier" players like Gasol, Conley, Wiggins, Gallinari, McCollum, Notwitzki, Jordan, etc. that Hayward would have to beat out to make the roster if there were an injury (or injuries) to any of the shoe-in players.

 

[Douchebag K]

Kevin love is not a star lol

 

[♪alt13]

I know I Know Defense Defense Defense but...

Love for Favors is the kind of trade that should happen. Both teams would be better.

Exum
Hood
Hayward
Love
Gobert

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

I feel like we fit somewhere between Nevada and Colorado, and maybe a little south of Idaho.

Isn't it bizarre how the space left between Arizona, Nevada, Idaho, Wyoming, Colorado (and sort of New Mexico) leaves a perfectly shaped space for Utah to fit? What would have happened if any of them had been a different shape?

 

[Douchebag K]

I know I Know Defense Defense Defense but...

Love for Favors is the kind of trade that should happen. Both teams would be better.

Exum
Hood
Hayward
Love
Gobert

Offensively i think that team would kill it. Although if we're wanting a 6-10 shooter who's a little lame defensively at the 4 haven't we now got Lyles for that ?

 

[♪alt13]

Offensively i think that team would kill it. Although if we're wanting a 6-10 shooter who's a little lame defensively at the 4 haven't we now got Lyles for that ?

Lyles does not equal Love

I actually think that with all that length(especially Exum & Gobert) we would be well equipped to hide Love's defensive shortcomings. Love may even look like a fairly decent defender given that his role would be smaller than it would be on almost any other team. Remember people criticized the hell out of Dirk's D and that dude has a ring. Either way I think that Love would more than make up for the difference on the other end of the floor.

 

[♪alt13]

Isn't it bizarre how the space left between Arizona, Nevada, Idaho, Wyoming, Colorado (and sort of New Mexico) leaves a perfectly shaped space for Utah to fit? What would have happened if any of them had been a different shape?

yes so long as their borders with Utah remained the same.

 

[fishonjazz]

I know I Know Defense Defense Defense but...

Love for Favors is the kind of trade that should happen. Both teams would be better.

Exum
Hood
Hayward
Love
Gobert

Green suggested favors, burke, Burks, and our draft pick for love.... Not favors for love.

Lyles does not equal Love.

He might soon

Offensively i think that team would kill it. Although if we're wanting a 6-10 shooter who's a little lame defensively at the 4 haven't we now got Lyles for that ?

Good point.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk