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Where will Jefferson stand in All Star voting this season?

franklin said:
You want mediocrity and entertainment? Fine, trade for Andres Biedrins and get all your laughs in at once.
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Why must you troll me? Jefferson guarantees mediocrity. Jefferson guarantees ****ty basketball. I can probably handle one of those two.
 
GVC said:
Why must you troll me? Jefferson guarantees mediocrity. Jefferson guarantees ****ty basketball. I can probably handle one of those two.
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You trolled the hell out of this thread and then pull that card? Yeah, Kanter is better in the post than the guy widely touted as the best low post player in the game. Okay.
 
GVC said:
You disagree? There's a reason he's been passing more the last couple games: Teams are starting to bring an extra defender to help when he has the ball in the post. Did you watch the last two games?
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franklin said:
Kanter has one post move and scrub defenders are recognizing it. Bump, bump right shoulder, spin left. He is getting better--especially at mixing the up and under into this instead of the other way around--but has a long way to go. As for his passes, I have no clue what you're talking about. Passing it back out to the point guard?
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GVC said:
1. So you're not watching the games (since, you know, he generally posts up from the left block, and has started going middle before countering with a spin or up-and-under).
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I had a hard time taking you seriously from this point forward.

You did not see Kanter posting up on the left block and bumping twice with his right shoulder, off a dribble, before spinning into the middle of the lane (left shoulder) for his shot? He did it several times, with very low success, and added his up and under as a compliment to this primary move. In the past he has been doing the up and under as his go to move and he's looked awful doing so. It's nice to see he is willing to and potentially capable of adding new post moves to his bag of tricks.

As far as passes go, I didn't see anything that added to the offense. Maybe he passed out when he had a very low percentage shot but so what?
As far as drawing defenders go, I saw the Clippers defense giving the Jazz offense the same things the Spurs did last post season. For some reason, the Jazz get into this awful habit of running the post game with everyone on the other side of the floor which leaves 4 guys guardable by two defenders. It's like sticking everyone into a corner and having one guy to block passes from coming through the doorway.

As far as getting to the line goes, cool. 21 times in 5 games averaging 21 MPG. That's bad ***. I don't know what it means since he's going against a lot of pre-season scrubs, but I like the continuation of what he showed he could do last season. He has 62 points on 54(?) shots. Is that good or bad?
 
franklin said:
You did not see Kanter posting up on the left block and bumping twice with his right shoulder, off a dribble, before spinning into the middle of the lane (left shoulder) for his shot? He did it several times, with very low success, and added his up and under as a compliment to this primary move. In the past he has been doing the up and under as his go to move and he's looked awful doing so. It's nice to see he is willing to and potentially capable of adding new post moves to his bag of tricks.
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He's trying to go middle, which is something many below-the-rim players, Jefferson included, struggle with. In the past (last season and this preseason), he went soft middle, then spun baseline, fooling fewer and fewer defenders. One big problem (very nicely talked about by Chuck and Shaq on TNT last year) with how he executed was how deep he was posting up. He was trapping himself too deep under the basket when he spun baseline as a result. He's still posting too deep too often, but there is improvement. He needs to look to Marc Gasol and Pek as examples of below-the-rim players who go middle effectively with a hook shot. He's broad enough and has soft enough hands that he should be able to develop a good enough hook shot to make both his baseline spin and up-and-under more effective.

franklin said:
As far as passes go, I didn't see anything that added to the offense. Maybe he passed out when he had a very low percentage shot but so what?
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He's hit Foye a couple times up top for open 3-pt attempts. Nothing fantastic, admittedly, but it's the same pass that Jefferson needed nearly a decade to figure out. When he passes, though, he does so much more crisply than Jefferson. I mostly point this out as an indicator of progress (we've seen more passes as the preseason has progressed, even).


franklin said:
As far as drawing defenders go, I saw the Clippers defense giving the Jazz offense the same things the Spurs did last post season. For some reason, the Jazz get into this awful habit of running the post game with everyone on the other side of the floor which leaves 4 guys guardable by two defenders. It's like sticking everyone into a corner and having one guy to block passes from coming through the doorway.
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It is infuriating. This is one area where billyshelby's analysis would (or at least could) be instructive.

franklin said:
As far as getting to the line goes, cool. 21 times in 5 games averaging 21 MPG. That's bad ***. I don't know what it means since he's going against a lot of pre-season scrubs, but I like the continuation of what he showed he could do last season. He has 62 points on 54(?) shots. Is that good or bad?
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TS% of .582, with most of his points posting up in the halfcourt, is pretty ****ing fantastic (relatively low turnovers as well). Preseason scrubs, notwithstanding.

What makes this discussion difficult is the dearth of cheap, available, albeit relatively simple statistics about league-wide relative efficiency of different shot types (including halfcourt v. fastbreak). How often do offenses break down? How effective is back-to-the-basket iso scoring relative to dribble penetration? What is league-wide halfcourt scoring efficiency? It's extremely difficult to make a strong argument about the value Jefferson adds with his consistent offensive output in situations of low point expectancy without this data (it's being collected, just not being made freely available AFAIK).

At one extreme we have billyshelby, who seems to think that the only thing that matters is consistent scoring from the low post (ridiculously calling Jefferson "dynamic" because he has both an up-and-under move and a push shot). At the other extreme we have nerd, who thinks teams can execute to get put-backs and fastbreak points on every possession. This discussion will get a lot more interesting as the data becomes available.
 
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Too much time to read all of the last posts, but last year I asked Locke at the Jazz at Rockets game about Jefferson making the All Star team and he disagreed.

Seems like the stats at the end of the season favored Big Al over Marc Gasol. If we can have a solid record come voting period Jefferson may be able to squeeze in there. He's our best shot because Dwight is automatic, and DeMarcus Cousins is on the Kings so I dont see that boding well for him.
 
franklin said:
As far as passes go, I didn't see anything that added to the offense. Maybe he passed out when he had a very low percentage shot but so what?
As far as drawing defenders go, I saw the Clippers defense giving the Jazz offense the same things the Spurs did last post season
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Kanter made some pretty impressive passes tonight, several times making a couple dribbles to create passing lanes. Hit Favors in the post (swung to an open Foye who decided not to shoot) and at the free throw line (missed shot), made the Jefferson pass to the top several times, and made at least two cross court passes. The Clips doubled him nearly every time he caught the ball in the post.
 
GVC said:
Kanter made some pretty impressive passes tonight, several times making a couple dribbles to create passing lanes. Hit Favors in the post (swung to an open Foye who decided not to shoot) and at the free throw line (missed shot), made the Jefferson pass to the top several times, and made at least two cross court passes. The Clips doubled him nearly every time he caught the ball in the post.
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Very impressed with Kanter tonight in this area. After he destroyed them last game in the post they came with the hard double every time he posted. Last year he would have still tried to get up a shot. Nice improvement in understand the game by kanter
 
I think a lot of the passing improvement from Kanter comes from knowing that he might be able to earn some minutes now whereas he probably felt he had to do everything he could in the 10-minutes-no matter-what slot he was damned to last year.
 
If Kanter turns out being a pretty good offensive player does Big Al get credit for helping develop two of the top offensive PF's (Love and Kanter)?
 
"Where will Jefferson stand in All Star voting this season?"

...he shouldn't even be on the ballot! And this thread should never have been started! There is no facet or feature of Jefferson's game that is anything close to being all-star caliber!
 
NUMBERICA said:
What in Kevin Love's game besides no D do you think resembles Al's?
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Just because you coach someone, or help coach someone, doesn't mean you are teaching them to be play just like you. I'm sure he worked with Love on offensive moves.
 
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