Why I think being a Muslim is rational.

[Beantown]

Thanks Koran for creating these people:

https://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/29/11457865-red-cross-doctor-found-beheaded-in-pakistan?lite

 

[The Black Swordsman]

Thanks Koran for creating these people:

https://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/29/11457865-red-cross-doctor-found-beheaded-in-pakistan?lite

You can also thank Islam for inventing Algebra and the scientific method. Islam is the greatest thing that happened for human progress. In Islam, the concept of Tawhid, or the oneness of God showed that the world around us is all God's working. This prompted people to try to explore God's work i.e. science.

I know this snippet of time that we have for the last 50 or so years shows otherwise. Islam is the second largest religion, there are over 1.5 billion Muslims. American media (which is largely owned by Jews on a side note) takes the black sheep of the Muslim community and displays them as exemplary Muslims.

It was Muhammad who said for every disease there is a cure so go and find the cure. This is all while Christians (which I shrug when I say that because I am more 'Christian' than and Christian i.e. I follow the teachings of Christ) would chisel crosses on people's foreheads. Muhammad was the first public figure in history to speak against infanticide in the entirety of written history.

Thank god and thank Islam.

 

[Beantown]

I would rather have peace than Algebra.

The Islam world is a violent one.

 

[The Black Swordsman]

I would rather have peace than Algebra.

The Islam world is a violent one.

I forgot if you are an atheist or a Christian so now I will make my case against atheists:

People often say religion and Islam in general is the cause of wars.

The Spanish Inquisition had a total of 2,000 deaths over a 350 year span.

The Salem witch trials? A total of 18.

Lets look at atheists:

Stalin (20 mill killed) , Mao (70 mill. killed), Hitler (10 mill. killed), Castro, Pol Pot, Ceausescu, etc

Pol Pot has killed over 2 million people. Osama Bin Laden and al-Qaeda even in their wildest dreams can't get close to half of Pol Pot who is a light weight in comparison to the other Atheists.

People say the Palestine-Israel Conflict is because of religion.

It isn't like the Palestinians are saying "Muhammad is the great prophet" and then the Jews are saying "No Moses is the greatest prophet" and then they are clashing. It is because of Land.

The Indian-Pakistan conflict is not because of religion. It is because of the land of Kashmir.

The problems that occur with religion are not unique to religion.

Now against Christians.

The bible in Numbers 31:7-18 states a situation in which raiders went to a city and killed everyone EXCEPT FOR virgin women in order to rape and marry them.'

Why is the qualification of being a Virgin or not a good qualification in order to kill or not someone.

Against the Qur'an everyone keeps quoting the verse of the sword (9:5) which states something like "kill the infidels where you find them!" however it is so simply dispelled in (9:6) the next verse in which it states if they don't want to fight, not only do you not fight them you also help protect them.

 

[Beantown]

That's cool but doesn't change the fact that Islam is super violent. Living in a Muslim country sounds exactly like what a hell would be.

 

[The Black Swordsman]

That's cool but doesn't change the fact that Islam is super violent. Living in a Muslim country sounds exactly like what a hell would be.

Well its a good thing I worship the God in the Qur'an and not the dictators ruling some of the violent countries in the middle east then?

 

[Beantown]

But the dictators are Muslim...

 

[The Black Swordsman]

But the dictators are Muslim...

Hitler has a funny looking Mustache. Charlie Chaplin also had the same mustache... That doesn't mean Hitler is as funny as Charlie Chaplin especially if you are a Jew.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Thanks Koran for creating these people:

https://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/29/11457865-red-cross-doctor-found-beheaded-in-pakistan?lite

Not sure if you're trolling, but you are seriously a clown. What a foolish thing to post.

I would rather have peace than Algebra.

The Islam world is a violent one.

Oh yeah? Give me some examples of this "violent, Islamic World" prior to the Second World War. If you have this view, how in Gods name can you explain three faiths co-existing in all islamic countries for millennia?

 

[Deleted member 848]

Hitler has a funny looking Mustache. Charlie Chaplin also had the same mustache... That doesn't mean Hitler is as funny as Charlie Chaplin especially if you are a Jew.

Please: Shut up.

 

[Stoked]

Not sure if you're trolling, but you are seriously a clown. What a foolish thing to post.

Oh yeah? Give me some examples of this "violent, Islamic World" prior to the Second World War. If you have this view, how in Gods name can you explain three faiths co-existing in all islamic countries for millennia?

I do not think Islam itself is a violent religion (well anymore violent than any other world religion). The problem is that the people in power have twisted and misrepresented what Islam is. So the view (what poeple see) is violence carried out "in the name" of Islam.

 

[Siro]

I do not think Islam itself is a violent religion (well anymore violent than any other world religion). The problem is that the people in power have twisted and misrepresented what Islam is. So the view (what poeple see) is violence carried out "in the name" of Islam.

I never got that argument. How do you judge whether a religion is violent if not by the number of people who commit violence in its name? Do the words have to jump out of the book and punch you in the face?

 

[Stoked]

I never got that argument. How do you judge whether a religion is violent if not by the number of people who commit violence in its name? Do the words have to jump out of the book and punch you in the face?

The Bible is just as violent, there is plenty of violence in the Book of Mormon as well. Would you call Mormons violent?

 

[Siro]

The Bible is just as violent, there is plenty of violence in the Book of Mormon as well. Would you call Mormons violent?

No. I don't recall many Mormons committing acts of violence in the name of Mormonism. That's exactly my point...

 

[Stoked]

No. I don't recall many Mormons committing acts of violence in the name of Mormonism. That's exactly my point...

And you are proving mine. The leaders are pushing this violent view of Islam on the people. So like any people (generally speaking) they follow. (ex. look at all the sheeple in politics here in the US. They are told what to think). The faith itself is not violent. Just the idiots in power trying to make it so.


Edit: if the Mormon Prophets over the last 50 years preached violence then the general core of the church would be violent. Mormonism itself would not be violent though.

 

[Siro]

And you are proving mine. The leaders are pushing this violent view of Islam on the people. So like any people (generally speaking) they follow. (ex. look at all the sheeple in politics here in the US. They are told what to think). The faith itself is not violent. Just the idiots in power trying to make it so.

You can say that about anything. Nazism wasn't violent. It was just the leaders pushing a violent view on their people! That argument can literally, without any adjustment, defend every ideology every conceived. The plain fact is: the Quran is full of violence. Muslims respond to the slightest provocation (a drawing of their prophet) with extreme threats and acts of violence. That makes Islam violent. I cannot think of a single meaningful definition that would make it non-violent.

 

[Deleted member 848]

You can say that about anything. Nazism wasn't violent. It was just the leaders pushing a violent view on their people! That argument can literally, without any adjustment, defend every ideology every conceived. The plain fact is: the Quran is full of violence. Muslims respond to the slightest provocation (a drawing of their prophet) with extreme threats and acts of violence. That makes Islam violent. I cannot think of a single meaningful definition that would make it non-violent.

Ok.


So on one hand, you basically agree with Stoked's sentiment, but infer that it is generic, and can be basically applied to nearly everything.


But then, you say "OHH, but the Quran is full of violence!!!! Look at all of the things blown up by western media over the past few years!!! This must be a direct representation of everybody of that faith!". What I don't understand, is that if you say that Stoked's point is generic, but then you use this exact same point to prove that a religion is violent, to me it comes across within the realms of irony, and redundancy. Unless your opinion is "everything that is has direct/indirect ties violence should automatically be considered violent as well", I am not exactly following you.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Dude, do you ever post on the Jazz forum, or did you sign up just to argue about being Muslim to a bunch of Mormons?

 

[Siro]

Ok.


So on one hand, you basically agree with Stoked's sentiment, but infer that it is generic, and can be basically applied to nearly everything.


But then, you say "OHH, but the Quran is full of violence!!!! Look at all of the things blown up by western media over the past few years!!! This must be a direct representation of everybody of that faith!". What I don't understand, is that if you say that Stoked's point is generic, but then you use this exact same point to prove that a religion is violent, to me it comes across within the realms of irony, and redundancy. Unless your opinion is "everything that is has direct/indirect ties violence should automatically be considered violent as well", I am not exactly following you.

So an ideology can only be considered violent if every single follower is violent? We're setting the bar a bit low here, aren't we? Islam creates a violent and destabilizing atmosphere wherever it takes hold. Muslims don't play nice with others. There is no freedom of religion in Islam, and no acknowledgment of cultural differences. Just black and white absolutes. Whether it is in India, or the Philippines, Russia and Eastern Europe, or anywhere else, Islam becomes aggressively divisive and inevitably leads to conflict. The video TBS had in his signature is correct, Islam will take over Europe. I'm hoping by that time it will be a neutered and semi-secular Islam, like today's Christianity. Otherwise, Islam is simply the worst threat to social progress facing the world today.

 

[Deleted member 848]

So an ideology can only be considered violent if every single follower is violent? We're setting the bar a bit low here, aren't we?

Okay. Where should we set the bar then?

Islam creates a violent and destabilizing atmosphere wherever it takes hold. Muslims don't play nice with others. There is no freedom of religion in Islam, and no acknowledgment of cultural differences. Just black and white absolutes. Whether it is in India, or the Philippines, Russia and Eastern Europe, or anywhere else, Islam becomes aggressively divisive and inevitably leads to conflict. The video TBS had in his signature is correct, Islam will take over Europe. I'm hoping by that time it will be a neutered and semi-secular Islam, like today's Christianity. Otherwise, Islam is simply the worst threat to social progress facing the world today.

Oh please, Siromar. I seriously thought you were better than this.

No freedom of religion? Do you realize that Islamic nations allowed freedom of religious-expression centuries before nearly every other European nation? I know you do. How have the Khaldians of Iraq existed for millennia? Same with catholics in Lebanon? Turkey? I can say with no doubt in my mind that Saudi Arabia is historically the only muslim dominant nation that was restrictive, in terms of allowing freedom of expressing religion. The backbone of the Golden Age of Islam is often credited specifically to their tolerance of other cultures, and their ambition to create dialogue with people of other faiths. I know you know this.


Here's my opinion of why I think your view of Islam is incorrect. When you look at the faith, you only consider the last 40 years of Islam and popular culture. Unfortunately, most popular representations of Islam at these times are characterized to wealthier Islamic nations, which are unanimously corrupt. Why do you not look at what the faith has done in the other 1300< years of its existence? Things like progress the Scientific, philosophical, and political World in times where no other nation was doing anything?


Regardless. You want a fairly-recent example of an Islamic nation acknowledging cultural differences, and not "being divisive, or leading to inter-religious conflict? Here you go: https://jazzfanz.com/showthread.php?9006-Muslim-Albanians-who-Rescued-Jews-during-the-Holocaust

The remarkable assistance afforded to the Jews was grounded in Besa, a code of honor, which still today serves as the highest ethical code in the country. Besa, means literally “to keep the promise.” One who acts according to Besa is someone who keeps his word, someone to whom one can trust one’s life and the lives of one’s family. Apparently this code sprouted from the Muslim faith as interpreted by the Albanians.

Huh. Would you look at that? An interpretation of Islam used for peaceful co-existence among different faiths. THIS CANNOT BE!!

Read that thread that I posted a while back, and then come back and respond to this argument. I've always liked you as a poster, but this post of yours has got to be one of the most questionable ones that I've seen from you.