Why we need to Trade Jefferson through February 6th (Stats)
- Thread starter Cope
- Start date
people again with the aj-hatin'.
for all his limitations he is clearly the best offensive option we have on the team. as pointed out elsewhere, our terrible 3-point shooting means he is constantly double-teamed and often enough he still finds a way to score.
he may not be a guy who can single-handedly deliver us a championship but why is everyone convinced he is the main problem with our team? his defense? (never mind the fact that over the past week our guards have been lit up by not only the likes of kobe, paul and tyreke evans, but also curry/ellis, roddy beaubois and the inestimable jeremy lin.)
puh-lease
Please PLEASE show me anything outside of PPG that proves what you are stating. I'll wait for your response.
don't know if you guys are just hung up on today's game (which i haven't watched yet) or having a hard time with al overall. reeally though it doesn't sound like i'm going to be able to show you anything to convince you (do i really need to convince you about our guard play/shooting?)
if you're stuck on my original comment, i can only really see an argument for millsap *maybe* as our alternative #1 scoring option. i love sap. no doubt he has improved again this year and gives 100% on the floor every night but he still is a scrapper foremost and like anyone when his jumpshot isn't falling he starts looking quite limited offensively.
or perhaps i've got it all wrong. please tell me who the jazz's best offensive option is. I'LL wait.
if you're stuck on my original comment, i can only really see an argument for millsap *maybe* as our alternative #1 scoring option. i love sap. no doubt he has improved again this year and gives 100% on the floor every night but he still is a scrapper foremost and like anyone when his jumpshot isn't falling he starts looking quite limited offensively.
or perhaps i've got it all wrong. please tell me who the jazz's best offensive option is. I'LL wait.
And that's the best you have?
Go back and look at the rest of this thread
Jefferson is our 2nd worst per possession scorer on this team
He doesn't play defense and defense leads to offense
He is stunting the growth of the young guys by taking PT which actually statistically hurts the team anyways
The offense doesn't do anything when he is in ala black hole
Kanter and Favors have shown in limited spurts they can play down low offensively and at better EFG numbers
Jeffy gets to the line less than any other big we have
Want me to continue?
Again, this thread isn't about our wing play...Its about Jeffy and what he doesn't bring to the table. Yet, he is perceived to be our best option offensively.
Our three most effective on the court +/- combinations have him in them and he is the leading scorer during that time. The second most points total (behind millsap) are scored when he is on the court. Although more points are given up while on the court than scored but this is about his offensive ability. The only starter shooting a better percentage is Millsap and he turns the ball over less than Millsap and slightly more assists per game. Backups only Favors and obviously evans are shooting better but you cant compare since they dont play against the same quality of opponents. Points per game kind of matter too at the end of the game when you say who our best offensive player is.
I dont love the guy but some people hate him way more than they should be. He is the blame goat this year for sure. Sure he had a rough end to tonights game but no one else stepped up either. Millsap tried and fumbled the ball as well. Our bigs should not be trying to create their own shot at the end of the game anyways.
The problem with your stats are that the Favors and Kanter play against backups not starters most of the time.
I am all for them getting more minutes when they play well. I agree they are the future. I am okay with trading Jefferson or Millsap if we get something great in return.
I am not okay with trading Jefferson or Millsap for nothing or low value just so Kanter/Favors can start because they are not ready and I dont think that will excel their development to make them start and play 35 minutes per night.
I am all for them getting more minutes when they play well. I agree they are the future. I am okay with trading Jefferson or Millsap if we get something great in return.
I am not okay with trading Jefferson or Millsap for nothing or low value just so Kanter/Favors can start because they are not ready and I dont think that will excel their development to make them start and play 35 minutes per night.
Thank you for posting something that backs up your statement. Do you think his time on the floor with Millsap helps in those lineups? Honest question and no wrong answer.
I'll admit and have that I'm not a fan of Big Al. Great guy? Sure, but I do think this team could be just as good short term and much better long term without him getting the 2nd most minutes on our team. The offense can be ran through Millsap much more effectively and there is proof of that. Also We get much better defense with either young on the floor with Sap.
Yes having Millsap helps those stats but having Jefferson on the court takes a lot of pressure off Millsap as well. Millsap does not get double teamed when Jefferson is out there. I think they are playing great together at times which I did not think would happen this season. I think if Millsap had to play with a defensive center like Deandre Jordan he would really suffer and could not carry the load long term.
I think if you eliminate Jefferson or Millsap and dont get a solid starter in return this team is much worse short term. Losing, in my opinion, short term does not equate getting better long term. Draft picks are a huge gamble and take time to develop. In the mean time you lose players and no free agents want to come to a losing organization. Losing gets in players heads and slows development usually.
I dont show that but I am guessing Milsap is in at least 2 of those as well? Who in your opinion has been the best offensive player for the Jazz this season and where do you rank Jefferson?
Millsap is in one of those... Starting lineup only. The other big one is where he is with Favors.
Millsap by far has been our best offensive player. Jefferson gets his numbers through volume. His PPP is 2nd lowest on the team and his EFG is worst of our bigs.
This argument is about offensive ability so I guess you would just look at + which is where Jefferson ranks 2 behind Millsap.
I am fine with Millsap 1 but then you have to go Jefferson 2. I am fine either way I think you have to go Jefferson and Millsap 1 and 2 that is our offense right now.
Where do you rank Jefferson offensively then?
just because
Well-Known Member
people again with the aj-hatin'.
for all his limitations he is clearly the best offensive option we have on the team. as pointed out elsewhere, our terrible 3-point shooting means he is constantly double-teamed and often enough he still finds a way to score.
he may not be a guy who can single-handedly deliver us a championship but why is everyone convinced he is the main problem with our team? his defense? (never mind the fact that over the past week our guards have been lit up by not only the likes of kobe, paul and tyreke evans, but also curry/ellis, roddy beaubois and the inestimable jeremy lin.)
puh-lease
If only this were 1/2 true. We are watching 2 different games I guess. All I see is a fat, slow, ball hog wait until a double team comes and then throw up some crap shot that goes in at a terrible rate. Terrible in that it goes in just enough to keep him shooting but not often enough to actually help the team.
I've said it before but I love Al as a person but HATE him as a Jazz man. The guy has no idea how to function in the jazz offense. We lost this game because of him and to a lesser degree Harris because he kept throwing the ball in to the black hole.
Honestly he is 2 due to volume. I see other players involved when he is NOT on the court. Just look at the 2nd half tonight for a perfect example. Others don't stand around and watch the ball disappear into the black hole.
Hayward, Favors, and Harris ALL had a great game vs Philly when he was out early.
In the loss to Toronto, Harris had his best game and Favors probably his 2nd best outside of the Philly game.
My point is offense can be replaced... Defense, hustle, boxing out and rebounding cant and we get that when he is NOT on the course.
boozer was our leading scorer too for many years, and everyone hated him, he wasnt traded so he just went away.
If we dont trade Big al, at some point he will just leave because we are not gonna pay 14 per year with Favors kanter and millsap on our hand.
MK11
Active Member
Big Al is not the main problem, he has goods and bads on the extreme. And the Jazz have bigger problems.
But he can be the main way out to balance our team through a quality trade. I don't believe it's a bad idea to exchange him(maybe with Harris) and some complementeries for a better pg, a shooter who can actually shoot and a roster-filler big man as the front court depth.
But he can be the main way out to balance our team through a quality trade. I don't believe it's a bad idea to exchange him(maybe with Harris) and some complementeries for a better pg, a shooter who can actually shoot and a roster-filler big man as the front court depth.
DutchJazzer
Banned
SCREW offense.
Defense wins championships. we aint winning one this year. so get rid of him he's hurting the jazz future by taking minutes away from kanter favors and evans
watching two different sports i reckon buddy.
anyway, we have him and the coaches are playing him so sit back and enjoy the ride.
MK11
Active Member
Agreed. And why would we watch the same bad movie over and over again? Didn't Boozer experience teach us somethings?
DutchJazzer
Banned
Actually i Hope Jefferson gets the all star nod above millsap.
it will boost his trade value.
problem is if Jefferson is an all star jazz probably wont trade him
it will boost his trade value.
problem is if Jefferson is an all star jazz probably wont trade him