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Would anybod here take a do-over on the 2011 draft?

framer said:
Keep in mind that there was a large percentage of this board who would have sold their soul for Biyombo, although none of them will admit it now. Kanter was the right choice, he is just brutally young and raw. Not raw like Biyombo, but inexperienced in his feel for competitition. He's barely 20. There have been only a handful of players ever who were fully NBA ready at that age. Also keep in mind that Summer league is not a great showcase for bigs. I was at the infamous Tag v. Timmy RMR game. Sat next to some San Antonio fans. A few would have traded him for Tag right on the spot. Don't be those guys. BTW Timmy had 4 years of college.
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I'll confess I thought Knight was the right choice. I think I even suggested the Jazz trade down 3-4 spots because I thought they could still get Knight or Walker. But the opportunity to get a quality big does not come along very often. Kanter and Valanciunas COULD be starting centers, so I certainly understand why the Jazz chose a 5 vs. SG's who were projected to become PG's.
 
BluesRocker said:
Nevermind. You are like a untrained dog. I cant even get through what I am saying to you.
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Prove your point - is what I was saying (in a non-challenging, but interested in what you have to say - way).

And if I were you - I would have said:

"OK - then Jazz takes Valanciunus at #3 (realistic), Cleveland takes Kanter at #4 (realistic), Toronto takes Knight at #5 (realistic), Pistons then takes Burks at #8 to pair with Stuckey (realistic). So Jazz would have had no chance at Burks."

QED.

Then I would have said: "Great BluesRocker - You Rock!!!"

The End.
 
Hotttnickkk said:
Prove your point - is what I was saying (in a non-challenging, but interested in what you have to say - way).

And if I were you - I would have said:

"OK - then Jazz takes Valanciunus at #3 (realistic), Cleveland takes Kanter at #4 (realistic), Toronto takes Knight at #5 (realistic), Pistons then takes Burks at #8 to pair with Stuckey (realistic). So Jazz would have had no chance at Burks."

QED.

Then I would have said: "Great BluesRocker - You Rock!!!"

The End.
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Or Pistons could have taken Walker if Knight was off the board.
What really helped us was Cleveland reaching for Tristan Thompson and Sacramento falling in love with Fredette. Neither of those guys, IMO, should have gone in the Top-10. When Fredette was selected, it ensured we'd get either Klay or Alec. I'm a BYU alum. but I was ecstatic that Jimmer was off the board at #12. Great guy, but definite tweener.
 
MoTown16 said:
It will be disappointing if Kanter becomes just a backup. That would seem a waste of a #3 pick on face value. I still say you draft him or Jonas, though. The old adage holds true: "if you're going to make a mistake, make it big." Of the players drafted 3-7:

#3 Enes Kanter (C) - 5 and 4 in 13 mins.
#4 Tristan Thompson (PF) - 8 and 6.5 in 24 mins.
#5 Jonas Valanciunas (C) - did not play in NBA
#6 Jan Veseky (F) - 5 and 4 in 19 mins
#7 Bismack Biyombo (PF/C) - 5 and 6 in 23 mins.

His numbers compare favorably to the bigs drafted right after. His PT is lower due to the presence of Al, Millsap and Favors. Most of the others are on terrible teams and are thrown in immediately. No, there wasn't a Cousins in this draft. Look back over the past several drafts and you only see a few centers other than Cousins who had decent impact their first year: like Lopez and Horford. I wouldn't mind if Kanter became a Noah-type player. It took Joakim 3 years to become a double-double guy. I think Kanter probably averages about 8/7 in 20-25 mins/per this season. Coincidentally, those are very close to Noah's 2nd year stats.

Just for giggles, let's recall the next four players drafted: Picks 8-10 are all PG's (Knight, Walker, Fredette). I'm not going to bother listing their stats. Both Brandon and Kemba struggled shooting the ball their rookie seasons and didn't impress with their assist numbers, either. And we all know Sacramento really reached with The Jimmer. Would Utah be better off with one of those guys? I'm not comfortable with any as "franchise PG's." Of the three, maybe Kemba is the best as a "poor-man's Harris." But all seem to really be undersized SG's, not pure points.

Then you have Klay Thompson and Utah's second pick, Alec Burks. IMO, either would have been a fine choice at #12. Klay's a better shooter, Alec is more athletic and can get to the hoop. Couldn't go wrong with either, IMO.

Conclusion: none of the PG's available at #3 appears to be worth a high lottery pick. It would have been a waste to reach for one. #12 was the perfect spot to pick up a wing as we got one of the two best at that spot. And the bigs were a toss-up. No one has really stood out yet. Perhaps in another 2 years, we can look back and see which ones panned out and which ones are complete busts.
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What if the Jazz traded back, got Knight, Burks and a future something? Sounds appealing.
 
I wouldn't. Kanter is a project. Projects take time and they can be frustrating, but they can be extremely rewarding. The NBA is a league were you have to swing to the fences to win a championship. I'm not saying that Kanter is going to work out like Nowitzki, Jermaine O'Neal, or Howard, but once the game slows down for him, he gains confidence, and he develops. He's going to be extremely effective, strong, and he's going to be 6'11/7'0. When was the last time the Jazz had a legitimate center?

People need to stop with the overreactions. We can't declare Kanter a bust until the end of his fourth year.
 
framer said:
Keep in mind that there was a large percentage of this board who would have sold their soul for Biyombo, although none of them will admit it now.
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I was one who was willing to take a flyer on Biyombo at three. Kanter, at times, was my favorite player last year, a rebounding machine. However, I've always been really worried about his lack of vertical and this makes me think about JV. IF, notice the caps, IF Favors had a complete offensive game that we could rely on for 20+ points per night, I think I may have taken that flyer...our paint protection would have been near the top on the league.
 
BluesRocker said:
What positions do the play? I could have swore they all play pf or center?

Thats actually what they are listed as.


Also Farried is a bad ***. I would take him.
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They're listed at the positions that their respective teams play them the most.
Of course Denver plays Farried at power forward..... they have nothing else.

I'd take Farried too, but never at PF.

Are we trying to build toward a championship or moving toward fighting for an eighth seed??
 
with the benefit of hindsight id have taken Iman Shumpert @12 [video=youtube_share;8_0mBJBJz_4]https://youtu.be/8_0mBJBJz_4

shumperts on-ball defense is top notch(on PG or SG even some SF's), and would have certainly gotten him on the floor much more than burks last year(i think its safe to say he would have been guarding parker/ginobili in the playoffs)... burks is better offensively but both of their shooting %'s leave much to be desired, while burks is super slick and aggressive attacking the basket, he is a finesse player/finisher.

shumpert plays with the keanu reeves driving the bus in speed type of 'dont back down'/'save the day attitude', that frustrates you for a bit but when it shines thru you take it all back and wonder why you've been so critical of the guy (i.e. on an iso with d rose and stealing his dribble with 1min left in regulation down by 4 and then doing it again in OT)

obviously i dont think it was in the cards for this to actually happen(we had a defensive stopper at 2... thanks raja!!), but i do believe shump would have made a profound impact on the 11-12 jazz, mostly in the areas of defense and attitude
 
Here ya go Jazz fanz!


Michael Lee: Jan Vesely looking like Dirk Nowitzki, so far, with the jumper. Summer workouts appear to be paying off. Comes back with a dunk. He's 3-3 FG

Dirk and Tractor Trailer, Jan Vesely and ..... nah couldn't be.
 
Whenever one of us gets impatient with Enes, come back to this post and take a look at Bynum's first 3 years.

Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
05-06 LAL 46 0 7.3 0.402 0.000 0.296 0.7 1.0 1.7 0.2 0.1 0.5 0.37 1.22 1.6
06-07 LAL 82 53 21.9 0.558 0.000 0.668 1.7 4.2 5.9 1.1 0.2 1.6 1.40 3.04 7.8
07-08 LAL 35 25 28.8 0.636 0.000 0.695 3.0 7.2 10.2 1.7 0.3 2.1 1.49 2.80 13.1
 
margodydek said:
Whenever one of us gets impatient with Enes, come back to this post and take a look at Bynum's first 3 years.

Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
05-06 LAL 46 0 7.3 0.402 0.000 0.296 0.7 1.0 1.7 0.2 0.1 0.5 0.37 1.22 1.6
06-07 LAL 82 53 21.9 0.558 0.000 0.668 1.7 4.2 5.9 1.1 0.2 1.6 1.40 3.04 7.8
07-08 LAL 35 25 28.8 0.636 0.000 0.695 3.0 7.2 10.2 1.7 0.3 2.1 1.49 2.80 13.1
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Well, to play devil's advocate, Bynum's first year would be when Kanter sat out at UK. His second year could be compared to Kanter's rookie season and from a quick glance, they're comparable. The problem is in Bynum's third year/Kanter's second. Kanter isn't scoring 13.1 a game on 63.6% from the floor with 10.2 rebound and 2.1 blocks this season. He won't do that next year either. He'll never be that efficient or block shots like that. He'll never become the scorer Bynum is either. And all of this is because he's not long and not explosive (terrible combo) and not fluid.
 
Pootie Tang said:
with the benefit of hindsight id have taken Iman Shumpert @12 [video=youtube_share;8_0mBJBJz_4]https://youtu.be/8_0mBJBJz_4

shumperts on-ball defense is top notch(on PG or SG even some SF's), and would have certainly gotten him on the floor much more than burks last year(i think its safe to say he would have been guarding parker/ginobili in the playoffs)... burks is better offensively but both of their shooting %'s leave much to be desired, while burks is super slick and aggressive attacking the basket, he is a finesse player/finisher.

shumpert plays with the keanu reeves driving the bus in speed type of 'dont back down'/'save the day attitude', that frustrates you for a bit but when it shines thru you take it all back and wonder why you've been so critical of the guy (i.e. on an iso with d rose and stealing his dribble with 1min left in regulation down by 4 and then doing it again in OT)

obviously i dont think it was in the cards for this to actually happen(we had a defensive stopper at 2... thanks raja!!), but i do believe shump would have made a profound impact on the 11-12 jazz, mostly in the areas of defense and attitude
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Shumpert is an interesting player. Hope he recovers well from his injury. That said, you lost me at 'Keanu Reeves.'
 
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