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Would you trade Exum for Lavine?

would you trade Exum for Lavine


  • Total voters
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Lavine is small for a SG. He is 180 lbs, and there are some PGs with a longer wingspan and standing reach.

Height-wise he is perfect for an sg. Weight-wise, he is young and could grow. Per draftexpress, his wingspan is longer than Hayward's, who has managed to become a very good defender (our defense returned when Hayward returned, mind you). Hayward's wingspan is 6'7.75" abd Lavine's is 6'8.25". His standing reach is 8'4" which isn't elite, but definitely not horrible. A 6'8" wingspan for an sg is pretty decent, though. Throw in his speed and hops and I think you're more than covered.
 
Height-wise he is perfect for an sg. Weight-wise, he is young and could grow. Per draftexpress, his wingspan is longer than Hayward's, who has managed to become a very good defender (our defense returned when Hayward returned, mind you). Hayward's wingspan is 6'7.75" abd Lavine's is 6'8.25". His standing reach is 8'4" which isn't elite, but definitely not horrible. A 6'8" wingspan for an sg is pretty decent, though. Throw in his speed and hops and I think you're more than covered.

don't give a fat rat's clacker about his wingspan or reach. Anyone that made it look like Trey blew past them for an easy layup is a giftedly atrocious defender.
Can't see him putting much weight on either, he looks like that already strong wiry type who won't get much bigger. Dante looks skinny and floppy and weak but will probably put on some good thickness with time.
 
Nope. It does not mean that at all. RPM is designed to account for who you are playing with (to some extent). Exum has a negative RPM. He is hidden by playing virtually all of his minutes with Hayward and Favors. If I played in a rec league with Jordan, Kobe, LeBron, and Duncan, I'm sure we'd have a positive point differential too, but that doesn't mean I'm helping them win.

I was primarily responding to multiple posters who were critiquing Lavine's RPM. Which is really bad. But we can't use one statistic for one player to show he's good, and a different one to show that another player is bad. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

The Jazz have won 60% of their games since Exum became the starter on Jan 22. Gobert did not begin as starter until Feb 20th.
The Jazz had won 33% of their games before Exum became the starter.

Go ahead and run whatever stats you want to prove your point.

The bottom line is Exum is a part of the good things going on with this team, and with the great defense that is being played as a team.
Also, Exum to the other 4 is not in the same galaxy as you to Kobe, Jordan, LeBron, and Duncan.

I think you are downplaying what Exum is doing out there because of how terrible his offense is at the moment.
 
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don't give a fat rat's clacker about his wingspan or reach. Anyone that made it look like Trey blew past them for an easy layup is a giftedly atrocious defender.
Can't see him putting much weight on either, he looks like that already strong wiry type who won't get much bigger. Dante looks skinny and floppy and weak but will probably put on some good thickness with time.

Most rookies are either poor defenders or poor offensive players, and if they're not, they go #1 or #2. You pick your poison, and seeing as we were the worst defense last year, but are now the best since the break, I think we are qaulified to teach defense to the able-bodied who have a desire to get better. Lavine has the desire to be great.
 
The Jazz have won 60% of their games since Exum became the starter on Jan 22. Gobert did not begin as starter until Feb 20th.
The Jazz had wone 33% of their games before Exum became the starter.

Go ahead and run whatever stats you want to prove your point.

The bottom line is Exum is a part of the good things going on with this team, and with the great defense that is being played as a team.
Also, Exum to the other 4 is not in the same galaxy as you to Kobe, Jordan, LeBron, and Duncan.

I think you are downplaying what Exum is doing out there because of how terrible his offense is at the moment.


These are very good points.

So it's settled, we need both Exum and Lavine. I'm willing to forfeit this year's pick, Trey, and whatever MIN wants from a bag of OKC assets or J. Evans/E. Millsap/ J. Cooley/ J. Ingles/ Johnson.
 
Nope. It does not mean that at all. RPM is designed to account for who you are playing with (to some extent). Exum has a negative RPM. He is hidden by playing virtually all of his minutes with Hayward and Favors. If I played in a rec league with Jordan, Kobe, LeBron, and Duncan, I'm sure we'd have a positive point differential too, but that doesn't mean I'm helping them win.

I was primarily responding to multiple posters who were critiquing Lavine's RPM. Which is really bad. But we can't use one statistic for one player to show he's good, and a different one to show that another player is bad. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

That's actually not true. Exum has played about 61.5% of his minutes with Hayward and 52% of his minutes with Favors and only 40% of his minutes with both Favors and Hayward. Exum is better than anybody from the regular rotation in both +/- and on/off. That means, even without Hayward and Favors he's still posting positive numbers when it comes to +/- and on/off... I would say those numbers show at the very least that he's not a negative for the team right now.
 
This silly Exum is "scared" and "mentally weak" thing is getting old. I assume the same people calling Exum that are the same ones who said Favors is not competitive, soft and no motor.

Exum wants to do more and will. He is very competitive by all accounts from everyone around him. He is not afraid of contact, watch him play defense. He is simply trying to win games and play within the system and do the things the coaching staff asks him to do really well.

If you think Exum is soft mentally then you think he is a bust, so just say it. Dont walk your line of not being willing to call Exum a bust because you might get proved wrong.

0 chance Exum is a bust. 0 chance he isnt an above average starter in this league assuming he has no major injuries.



Mentally weak players dont play great defense. Name one good defender in the NBA that is afraid of contact, name one good defender that is scared. Dante does what he is good at right now and plays within the system. That is a sign of a mentally strong player. A mentally weak player would skip steps in development and try to do stuff he cant. He would pick up bad habits and not take the time to learn the game right. A mentally weak player would go for stats and not do the little things right. Mentally weak players like Kanter dont play defense.

Exum>Lavine

Exum is >>>>>>>>> mentally strong than Lavine.

Lavine>jumper than Exum, thats it.

Best case scenario for Lavine is he is a more selfish, more out of control, mentally weaker version of Russell Westbrook



I would however trade Exum for Wiggins and would throw in every pick we own that we can give them.

I agree. Calling Exum scared or mentallu weak is over-the-top, hyperbolic garbage but to claim that the reason the kid passes up open shots and layups because he's "simply trying to win games" is laughable at best. Exum is timid out there and anyone can see that objectively. I don't know what it is but I'm pretty sure it has something to do with his age and maybe a small doubt he has in regards to the level of play he is going up against.

He has flashes, he shows an ability but we have yet to see what he can truly bring to the table. The jury i still out.
 
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Kobe is that type of player.
I think Kobe was better than Nick young

Yep, Kobe, Westbrook, Dominique Wilkins, Iverson, etc. There is a ceiling on that type of player, but it isn't Nick Young.

LMAO.

You guys are seriously comparing Lavine to Kobe/Nique/Westbrook/Iverson???

He's waaaaaay closer to being a Nick Young type player than any of those players.

Y'alll been watching too much West Coast Conference basketball LOL.
 
LMAO.

You guys are seriously comparing Lavine to Kobe/Nique/Westbrook/Iverson???

He's waaaaaay closer to being a Nick Young type player than any of those players.

Y'alll been watching too much West Coast Conference basketball LOL.

I don't think there's anyway to know one way or the other.
 
LMAO.

You guys are seriously comparing Lavine to Kobe/Nique/Westbrook/Iverson???

He's waaaaaay closer to being a Nick Young type player than any of those players.

Y'alll been watching too much West Coast Conference basketball LOL.
He said selfish players have a ceiling of Nick young.

We were comparing kobe/nique/iverson/westbrook (dudes who alot of people criticize for thier selfishness) to having a ceiling of Nick young.

You think those players are equal to Nick young? To each thier own I guess
 
Interesting article from David Thorpe on Exum. He has him rated as the #1 rookie PG in the draft class still. Thinks he'll be an all-star. Rated him over Elfrid Payton and Lavine.

https://espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/12595966/projecting-rookie-point-guards

"The good news is he appears eager to learn how to be a point guard. He is doing well as a ball-mover, and he doesn't force the issue on offense. The fact that he's rarely in a rush is a sign that he's trying to figure out this complex game. And there is value in having a point guard run the team's offense, especially when he can't score efficiently on his own."

Also says we should expect huge improvement from year 1 to year 2 from Dante.

Let's hope!!!!!
 
Interesting article from David Thorpe on Exum. He has him rated as the #1 rookie PG in the draft class still. Thinks he'll be an all-star. Rated him over Elfrid Payton and Lavine.

https://espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/12595966/projecting-rookie-point-guards

"The good news is he appears eager to learn how to be a point guard. He is doing well as a ball-mover, and he doesn't force the issue on offense. The fact that he's rarely in a rush is a sign that he's trying to figure out this complex game. And there is value in having a point guard run the team's offense, especially when he can't score efficiently on his own."

Also says we should expect huge improvement from year 1 to year 2 from Dante.

Let's hope!!!!!

I know we can't post full insider articles and whatnot legally, but are fine with small excerpts.

I wonder if 4-5 posters posted small (20-25%) excerpts of the article if that would get Jason into trouble?

Can we get a ruling.... Jason.... Colton.

p.s. I already know the answer, just the cheapskate in me dreaming and scheming.
 
I know we can't post full insider articles and whatnot legally, but are fine with small excerpts.

I wonder if 4-5 posters posted small (20-25%) excerpts of the article if that would get Jason into trouble?

Can we get a ruling.... Jason.... Colton.

p.s. I already know the answer, just the cheapskate in me dreaming and scheming.

He does say his best guess for Exum is all-star. The only one from this crop he calls this. He says best guess for Lavine is 6th man/scoring guard.
 
I'm not so much down on Exum as I am high on Lavine. I think Lavine is just oozing with potential.

I think they both could be really good, just feel like Lavine's ceiling is higher.
 
Exum bringing it against the Nugs so far. Not quite half time and he already has 7 assists and 1 to.
Still little offense, but it's nice to see the assists rolling in.

It's difficult to get 7 assists in a half with a "low bbiq".
 
I think tonight has showcased the "flash" that I have been waiting for from Exum. There was one drive he made, with a quick pass around a player to Gobert. Gobert was fouled so Exum didn't get the assist, but it was impressive. Exum had a damn good night!
 
I understand why Exum has received as much criticism as he has this year due to the fact that he is clearly the furthest behind in his development out of our key players. Hayward, Favors, & Gobert are all contributing at a high level, while Exum is still struggling to find his footing in the league & his role on the team. I think some of his apparent confidence issues/lack of aggression is more due to a misconception that he has as far as what the team is looking for from him rather than him being timid or scared. Up until now, he has always been the best/most physically gifted player on the floor & now that he no longer is, I think he has realized that, while he may still be able to be somewhat affective were he to rely solely on his athleticism & aggression as he had up to this point, he wouldn't be nearly as affective as he could be were he to learn the system & nuances of the position, in order to combine that knowledge with his physical gifts & natural aggression.

Before the season began, he was likely told to ignore results & focus on developing specific areas of his game (such as pace, game management, shooting, passing, & defense). When he was drafted, I don't think the FO was looking for a Westbrook type of PG, but rather a Rondo type (who would hopefully be able to actually hit an open shot beyond mid-range). From the little I have heard from him in interviews, confidence doesn't seem to be an issue. As far as I can tell, he has carried himself very professionally, & if I had to guess, I would imagine that his play on the court is more due to his desire to fit in, earn his keep, & not step on anyone's toes. His personality strikes me more as the silent, confident type rather than someone who feels the need to prove his worth in a season in which he clearly isn't ready to do so (& rightfully so). He knows that one season will not determine the outcome of his career. This year is about learning what it means to be a professional (& good teammate) while allowing his (still developing) body to adjust to the toll that an 82 game season takes on your body.

This isn't to say that I have zero concerns about him or that I am 100% certain that he will become a superstar, but to suggest trading one question mark with potential for another question mark with potential doesn't make sense (although I would consider trading him for Russell, who is another question mark with potential, but only because I see Russell as less of a question mark & a potentially elite scorer & don't quite see Lavine as having quite that type of offensive potential). I could understand wanting to trade Exum for an established all-star caliber player, strictly due to the fact that Hayward, Favors, & Gobert are ready to win now, while Exum clearly isn't, but that is unlikely to happen. Regardless, just because Exum appears to be lagging behind the team's overall developmental timeline, it is far too early to give up on him. His combination of physical tools, work ethic/character, basketball iq, & court vision are extremely rare in a PG, especially one at his age, & could eventually come together to create a very special player. There aren't a lot of players out there (tho there are a few) that I would trade away Exum for & Lavine is not one of them (although I do like him as a player & would love to have him in the backcourt alongside Exum).
 
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Team had him run plays tonight a lot more than usual. Scored that initial reverse layup then the defense stepped up every time he drove opening up some nice passing lanes. He has the height and court vision to make some incredible passes. I love when he gets doubled on the pick and roll and he just jumps over the other pg and passes to his open big. Hit Favors on a few of those for wide open jumpers. That play will be unstoppable next season if Favors continues to improve jumper and Exum improves his ability to score at the rim.
 
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