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Following potential 2015 draftees

Catchall said:
What I proposed nets a top 4 pick and All Star-caliber talent for mid and late first-round picks. The league would be stunned if the Jazz pulled that off. I know people like Hood and our stash of late picks, but the rest of the league would view this as a good move. The goal is to improve the quality of your players, and the Jazz would have Exum, Hezonja, Hayward, Favors and Gobert all growing together.
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The question then would be - are we trying to impress the rest of the league or are we trying to build a winning team? To me it doesn't matter if the rest of the league is impressed as long as the move we make gets us closer to contention. With that said, I'd like that move, too...
 
BENTLEY said:
Well, if people want the 4th pick Hayward would do it by himself I think. I'm against trading Favors. Then the Jazz could select a 3rd pick with 12.
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After the way Utah played in the 2nd half of the season, it would be nuts to trade away Hayward for the 4th pick right now. It just ain't gonna happen.
 
Catchall said:
What I proposed nets a top 4 pick and All Star-caliber talent for mid and late first-round picks.
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Like this better than the previous idea. I'm probably not buying as much of the hype on Porz, Mario, or even Hood as some others are. But, yeah, if they Jazz felt they could get an all-star talent at 4, I'd likely give up those assets.
 
Catchall said:
Okay, try this:

Utah trades Hood + future 1st to Charlotte.

Utah trades #12 + Charlotte's #9 + future pick to NYK

Utah takes back #4 and drafts Hezonja or Porzingis.

NYK drafts Johnson and Lyles.

Jazz are epic. They add an All Star talent on a rookie deal.
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I could be down with that.

My preference would be Super Mario just in case I hadn't made that clear.

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INSIDER: Just got a snapchat from a friend of Kaminsky eating quietly at a restaurant without two women around his arms. Frank's wild years are over.
 
If we can move up without trading, Exum, Burks, Hood, Hayward, Favors, Gobert, then I'm all for it.

Other than that, unless were trading up for Towns or Russell, don't even mention one of those guys.
 
White Chocolate said:
If we can move up without trading, Exum, Burks, Hood, Hayward, Favors, Gobert, then I'm all for it.

Other than that, unless were trading up for Towns or Russell, don't even mention one of those guys.
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Yep. Top 6 guys should be off the board for this draft. After that, everything else is on the table with an eye toward developing this team for the next two years and then making a blockbuster move in 2016/2017. I really don't want them to move too many assets right now.

Let the cake bake (just add some extra ingredients to it first)
 
stitches said:
It's not all black and white, man... He has his flaws, like any prospect, the hardest thing is to project if he'd be able to overcome them and turn them into strengths. Gobert coming out of Europe was labeled soft(lacking toughness) too... and his rebounding numbers were not great either. They were saying he doesn't have a mean streak and that his feel for the game is bad. Quote from DX: "Isn't the nasty, fiery big man you would hope, get's knocked around and doesn't fight back" etc. Gobert has worked hard on his body and his game and the improved strength has translated into a much more imposing presence. A lot of those players improve a lot when they get to the NBA so it's not set in stone that his current weaknesses will be weaknesses forever.
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Black and white? I didn't say it was black and white, man. I just said the guy who wrote the report on Porz' flaws was pointing out that he isn't perfect:
Porzingis certainly is no draft bust like Milicic or Tskitishvili, but he doesn’t seem to be Dirk Nowitzki, either. Whichever team drafts him likely will be very happy, but at this point it doesn’t look like a good idea to pick Porzingis ahead of Towns, Okafor, D’Angelo Russell, Emmanuel Mudiay, Justise Winslow, Willie Cauley-Stein or even Hezonja.
Read more at https://www.sheridanhoops.com/2015/...s-is-not-a-top-five-pick/#dxRgOSrkSQu39DBo.99
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I bolded that part so you would see that it isn't a black and white article painting Porz as all black. It's a pretty even article - but it definitely appears to be in response to the herd getting all geeked that Porz is a #2 pick. So it mainly focuses on the flaws. The above quoted line summarizes his opinion generally. He has more specifics on Porz' flaws if you want to read them: https://www.sheridanhoops.com/2015/06/18/mitnick-kristaps-porzingis-is-not-a-top-five-pick/

But yeah, it's fair, - he's just tempering everyone's enthusiasm. And it's just his opinion. Porz might be great, sure. Anything's possible - it's possible Porz is the best prospect in the draft. But this guy appears to have watched him a lot more than I have and he's saying to temper enthusiasm.

And I'm not even advocating trading one of our players - I'm just replying to Catchall's won't-let-it-go campaign to trade Favors for the 4th pick. If we're hellbent on trading a player for the 4th pick I say Hayward, but I'm more than fine not trading anyone for the 4th pick. Except Trey, I'll trade Trey.
 
According to fivethirtyeight.com (who is generally pretty good with stuff like this), these are the players with the best probability of becoming a superstar player, fwiw:

D'Angelo Russell - 15.2%

Karl-Anthony Towns - 13.5%

Justise Winslow - 8.4%

Devin Booker - 7.1%

Stanley Johnson - 6.8%

Jahlil Okafor - 5.9%

Willie Cauley-Stein - 4.7%

Myles Turner - 2.9%

Tyus Jones - 2.7%

Trey Lyles - 2.2%

Rashad Vaughn - 2.1%

Rondae Hollis-Jefferson - 1.5%

Nobody else is over 1.1%.
 
^^^

Don't think they included international prospects because of the model they were using.
 
White Chocolate said:
If we can move up without trading, Exum, Burks, Hood, Hayward, Favors, Gobert, then I'm all for it.

Other than that, unless were trading up for Towns or Russell, don't even mention one of those guys.
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Popular opinion alert: I'm perfectly fine trading one of Burks/Hood if it lands you Mario. Unlikely but certainly worth it.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 
White Chocolate said:
According to fivethirtyeight.com (who is generally pretty good with stuff like this), these are the players with the best probability of becoming a superstar player, fwiw:

D'Angelo Russell - 15.2%

Karl-Anthony Towns - 13.5%

Justise Winslow - 8.4%

Devin Booker - 7.1%

Stanley Johnson - 6.8%

Jahlil Okafor - 5.9%

Willie Cauley-Stein - 4.7%

Myles Turner - 2.9%

Tyus Jones - 2.7%

Trey Lyles - 2.2%

Rashad Vaughn - 2.1%

Rondae Hollis-Jefferson - 1.5%

Nobody else is over 1.1%.
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It obviously doesn't include players that played overseas last year.

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BENTLEY said:
Black and white? I didn't say it was black and white, man. I just said the guy who wrote the report on Porz' flaws was pointing out that he isn't perfect:


I bolded that part so you would see that it isn't a black and white article painting Porz as all black. It's a pretty even article - but it definitely appears to be in response to the herd getting all geeked that Porz is a #2 pick. So it mainly focuses on the flaws. The above quoted line summarizes his opinion generally. He has more specifics on Porz' flaws if you want to read them: https://www.sheridanhoops.com/2015/06/18/mitnick-kristaps-porzingis-is-not-a-top-five-pick/

But yeah, it's fair, - he's just tempering everyone's enthusiasm. And it's just his opinion. Porz might be great, sure. Anything's possible - it's possible Porz is the best prospect in the draft. But this guy appears to have watched him a lot more than I have and he's saying to temper enthusiasm.

And I'm not even advocating trading one of our players - I'm just replying to Catchall's won't-let-it-go campaign to trade Favors for the 4th pick. If we're hellbent on trading a player for the 4th pick I say Hayward, but I'm more than fine not trading anyone for the 4th pick. Except Trey, I'll trade Trey.
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Oh I thought you were referring to my reply from a couple of days ago, where I pushed back on the massive and unquestionable love he was receiving:

stitches said:
I was the one hyping Porzingis all year long while people were dismissing him, and now I feel like I need to hold people back because of some insane trade ideas(12+Favors for him). I'm still high on Porzingis, but you have to remember - empty gym is about the perfect environment for him to shine. I was telling that to people several months ago - he will kill the workouts, simply because the best of his attributes will be on display and the worst of his attributes will be hidden. You can't see the bad basketball IQ when you are looking at him dunking and shooting without defenders around him. You can't see him not passing a lick, you can't see him getting bullied by weak Euro SFs and PFs in the paint and not being able to get a robound even though he's 3-4 inches taller than anybody else on the floor, you can't see him losing his man several times a game off-ball in 5-on-5 Enes-style. Curb your enthusiasm, guys... Porzingis is an awesome offensive prospect, but he has some serious flaws right now. I'm not saying he can't or won't improve those with experience and with getting stronger, but lets not act like he's some sort of sure thing. I'd take Favors every time in the situation we are at right now.
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My point is going either way to the extreme is probably not very productive. I doubt any front office would base their decision on a single workout in an empty gym. They have more than 50 games of him in the last couple of years and plenty of material to judge him by. I feel like the workout was scheduled by his agents more to feed the hype machine around him and his position in the draft than to show off anything specific about Porzingis. Scouts have been watching him for years and know much more about him than what him dunking and knocking down shots with no contest would tell them.
 
Ok, yeah - you and the guy who wrote the article think the same thing about Porz. I agree. He has some talent but he also has some flaws. And it's possible he can improve his flaws. Maybe.


I still wouldn't trade any of our players for him.
 
White Chocolate said:
According to fivethirtyeight.com (who is generally pretty good with stuff like this), these are the players with the best probability of becoming a superstar player, fwiw:

D'Angelo Russell - 15.2%

Karl-Anthony Towns - 13.5%

Justise Winslow - 8.4%

Devin Booker - 7.1%

Stanley Johnson - 6.8%

Jahlil Okafor - 5.9%

Willie Cauley-Stein - 4.7%

Myles Turner - 2.9%

Tyus Jones - 2.7%

Trey Lyles - 2.2%

Rashad Vaughn - 2.1%

Rondae Hollis-Jefferson - 1.5%

Nobody else is over 1.1%.
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Doesn't that source also say Russell has the highest chance of busting too?
 
I just find it funny that all this love for Porzingis comes from workout video where no one is guarding him.
 
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