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Celtics @ Jazz; Wednesday, March 28th

infection said:
I think Cy sees this as very black and white (either Ainge is an honest, upfront guy or he's a dishonest, scheming scumbag), which is no wonder why he doesn't seem to appreciate that even those at the highest level still have all the human characteristics as the rest of us. Interestingly, as already mentioned, he doesn't seem to have an issue with believing Cleveland is being dishonest. Also, with regard to the whole medical evaluation thing, it's also not black and white. You can't just plug in all the variables and expect some kind of science to compute you the same answer every time. Ainge could have very well known his health is a bigger issue than being let on but figured he could roll the dice on an independent evaluation (as he probably had many conflicting medical evals in his own camp anyway). This was kind of the crux of the whole Bosh issue (assuming that there's a universal standard agreement in medical evaluations), and an issue I'll eventually readdress.

Cleveland certainly could be blowing steam, but would they sacrifice what they thought was a good deal (if they assumed IT was healthy enough) to hold out for a draft pick? Seems awfully risky and shortsighted. However, if they felt iffy about the deal to begin with then it's possible this pushes them over the edge. But, if it's too late for Boston to back out (based on rules or what have you), then maybe they really are messing with him.
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I just don't see the positives of Boston lying to Cleveland. They wanted this deal to get done, but they also didnt want to get IT and Crowder backed pissed off after a trade got cancelled. Altman ****ed Aigne good and hard. This might go back to the whole karma thing for Ainge playing hardball. Altman is in the position of power as he has the star asset.

As for the Cavs, Kyrie is already pissed at Cleveland and wants out. Throwing him in random trade and backing out does nothing to change that. Cleveland just put Boston in the same **** boat they are in.

What seems more likely?

Boston lied to Cleveland, hoping that Cleveland wouldn't do any medical testing and just say whatever and do the deal anyway.

Or Cleveland knew very well about the IT hip issue, but agreed to the trade anyway knowing the IT's hip was bad enough that under their own medical testing they could cancel the trade in a public way that lowered the trade value of IT, therefore doing three possible things: getting them more from Boston, Boston deciding not to trade w/ Cleveland but trying to do so elsewhere with less value, or IT returns and the situation becomes much more uncomfortable and tension filled.

What's the risk for Cleveland? Boston clearly wants to get this deal done, especially now that IT is pissed off (hell, it even appears that Boston leaked to the media some of his teammates didnt even like him (or maybe to get even deeper, maybe Cleveland leaked that to make his value even lower)). I don't see them pulling the current deal off the table if Cleveland's bluff ultimately fails.

Boston forgot the general rule of not trading with your conference rival or they are likely to **** you in the ***.

This is Altman going into Ainge's office:
giphy.gif
 
I don't see any advantage to Cleveland doing the trade and then announcing the injury issue publicly in some grand plot to get more assets. The trade was fair as is...IF IT could play. Yes, Cleveland knew IT had a hip injury last season. I think it's also very likely they thought - or were led to believe - that the injury had healed or would cause very little disruption to the season. Now, after bringing IT in, they discover he may need surgery. And that is likely season-ending (or at least a good chunk of it).

To complete the trade as is, means giving up for Cleveland. They wouldn't have a PG and they certainly don't have cap space to go out and get one. They'd be acknowledging a rebuild. May as well trade Lebron and Love if that's the case. By voiding the trade, they could go to Plan B. Certainly there were other offers for Irving. They just liked the original one with Boston better...one that they thought gave them an all-star PG in return. Does the first round pick and Crowder seem like a good return for the Cavs? If IT can't play, why would they want a dead asset on their roster for a year? And then he's an UFA. I think Cleveland SHOULD ask for more...and then they perhaps need to look at flipping some of those acquired assets for a quality PG.
 
If Ainge, Boston knew and represented correctly, why would you allow language into the agreement allowing them to backout depending on physical results.

Something is off here.

Sent from my SM-G930P using JazzFanz mobile app
 
Jack Strop said:
I don't see any advantage to Cleveland doing the trade and then announcing the injury issue publicly in some grand plot to get more assets. The trade was fair as is...IF IT could play. Yes, Cleveland knew IT had a hip injury last season. I think it's also very likely they thought - or were led to believe - that the injury had healed or would cause very little disruption to the season. Now, after bringing IT in, they discover he may need surgery. And that is likely season-ending (or at least a good chunk of it).

To complete the trade as is, means giving up for Cleveland. They wouldn't have a PG and they certainly don't have cap space to go out and get one. They'd be acknowledging a rebuild. May as well trade Lebron and Love if that's the case. By voiding the trade, they could go to Plan B. Certainly there were other offers for Irving. They just liked the original one with Boston better...one that they thought gave them an all-star PG in return. Does the first round pick and Crowder seem like a good return for the Cavs? If IT can't play, why would they want a dead asset on their roster for a year? And then he's an UFA. I think Cleveland SHOULD ask for more...and then they perhaps need to look at flipping some of those acquired assets for a quality PG.
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You dont see the advantage of Cleveland ****ing over Boston assets value and potentially harming their team chemistry? C'mon.

Even if this trade doesnt go through, Altman potentially ****ed over IT/Boston's relationship to the point where they he wont even consider re-signing and lowered his trade value.
 
vegas said:
If Ainge, Boston knew and represented correctly, why would you allow language into the agreement allowing them to backout depending on physical results.

Something is off here.

Sent from my SM-G930P using JazzFanz mobile app
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There is no language. That's every trade, it's a rule. Every team has to run their own medical evaluations before the trade is official. No one would ever agree to a trade otherwise, cause then Boston could actually lie about health and have it benefit them.
 
ijazz said:
Even Lebron James is sick of fans reactions.

Look at his tweets the last few days, he actually names Hayward for all his hard work and doing what is best for his family.


Enjoy another lottery pick next year :)

Enjoy GH20 lifting the NBA Championship trophy within the next 3 years.... that will be salty for ya'll.
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First of all, LeBron James has notoriously the thinnest skin this side of Donald Trump.

Second of all, not that Jazzfanz will take infinite amounts of joy in the celtics' inability to win a championship in the next three years, it will probably be more like when your wife's family finds out that she's leaving you.

"Yeah we always kinda knew he was a punk, we even made fun of him when they first started dating. But she seemed to think that he could deliver and over the years he filled out a little, limited playing video games to like an hour a day. He even went through puberty. But now that we don't have to like him, what a tool."

And none of them will be that surprised that you can't substantially better your prospects with another woman, one with 17 kids, since that's how women are measured.
 
If Mitchell is as good as I want to believe he is, the Jazz might be better than the Celtics right now, whether or not they have Kyrie.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I just don't see the positives of Boston lying to Cleveland. They wanted this deal to get done, but they also didnt want to get IT and Crowder backed pissed off after a trade got cancelled. Altman ****ed Aigne good and hard. This might go back to the whole karma thing for Ainge playing hardball. Altman is in the position of power as he has the star asset.

As for the Cavs, Kyrie is already pissed at Cleveland and wants out. Throwing him in random trade and backing out does nothing to change that. Cleveland just put Boston in the same **** boat they are in.

What seems more likely?

Boston lied to Cleveland, hoping that Cleveland wouldn't do any medical testing and just say whatever and do the deal anyway.

Or Cleveland knew very well about the IT hip issue, but agreed to the trade anyway knowing the IT's hip was bad enough that under their own medical testing they could cancel the trade in a public way that lowered the trade value of IT, therefore doing three possible things: getting them more from Boston, Boston deciding not to trade w/ Cleveland but trying to do so elsewhere with less value, or IT returns and the situation becomes much more uncomfortable and tension filled.

What's the risk for Cleveland? Boston clearly wants to get this deal done, especially now that IT is pissed off (hell, it even appears that Boston leaked to the media some of his teammates didnt even like him (or maybe to get even deeper, maybe Cleveland leaked that to make his value even lower)). I don't see them pulling the current deal off the table if Cleveland's bluff ultimately fails.

Boston forgot the general rule of not trading with your conference rival or they are likely to **** you in the ***.

This is Altman going into Ainge's office:
giphy.gif
Click to expand...

Sixers snuck one by the pelicans on holiday back in the day... obviously everyone knew there was an issue with the hip ainge may have had more info than anyone could get in one test. If IT is healthy or plays say 60 games this deal is great for Cleveland. Why would they risk a great deal to get just a little more?

Medical issues aren't black and white maybe one guy will pass a guy or be less pessimistic. Altman having some grand plan to squeeze just a little more out of ainge is less likely than ainge under selling the injury... maybe not a full lie but just less than full disclosure. Houston tried to trade montiejunas when he had issues hoping it would go through... it happens and a handful of trades have been nixed by the physical when the trading team knew there was an issue.
 
It's sounding like IT may be out until January. They had to wait for the swelling to go down before they could test to determine the severity of the injury. Surgery is still a possibility, which could set things back 3-4 months.

If this is the same issue that Kevon Looney has, it's a career threatening injury.
 
I don't think that Cleveland premeditated going back and asking the Cs for more. I think there was a big gray area as to just how serious IT's injury is. Even now, it's not clear when he's going to be able to play.
 
I've always heard about physicals just like you guys, but I've never seen rules about it or what a trade agreement looks like.

Have you?

Sent from my SM-G930P using JazzFanz mobile app
 
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