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Las Vegas: Worst Mass Shooting in US History

Archie Moses said:
I'd rather be Archie, tbh. You can't Biff a thread around here.
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You changed your name again? By the way, how did you pronounce "McGibblets"? Was it "mick-jib-lets" or "mick-gib-lets"?
 
Stoked said:
The security guard that got shot in the leg has disappeared. He was supposed to do an interview and now he has completely fallen off the grid.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-jesus-campos-vegas-20171016-story.html
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Pretty lame article that's only adding fuel to the fire. You mean immediate details weren't accurate and were fixed upon investigation? My gosh, what a cover up! Accounts from eye witnesses weren't down to the nano-second accurate? Did those people blink or something when they were staring at their quartz watch for 16 hours a day?
 
franklin said:
Pretty lame article that's only adding fuel to the fire. You mean immediate details weren't accurate and were fixed upon investigation? My gosh, what a cover up! Accounts from eye witnesses weren't down to the nano-second accurate? Did those people blink or something when they were staring at their quartz watch for 16 hours a day?
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I didn't read the full article. I used it only to show that the guard is indeed missing.
 
Bulletproof said:
Missing is a funny term.

He has been "found" on the Ellen DeGeneres Show.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/las-vegas-security-guard-jesus-campos-public-account/story?id=50551253

I just didn't answer my phone and ignored the doorbell. I'm now officially off the grid.
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Its sad that so many of these conspiracy theory people are smearing this guys name. He seems like an outstanding person and should receive thanks for what he did not have his name dragged through the dirt. He even refused to take money from Ellen for what he did.

The reality is that conspiracy theories often hurt people and are based on nothing. People want to make these grand connections but they are simply made up in their head. Once they express those ideas others latch on to them and it is very difficult for even the truth and facts to change their mind. This is a horrific act that happened and people feel the need to justify this act with some wild story because the truth is too simple.

People who push conspiracy theories without solid evidence and facts are hurting people and causing problems. They need to stop it, it is wrong. They also shift attention away from the real problems and from real corrupt people doing bad things. Just focus on the facts and evidence not on wild stories that help you justify something or cope with the reality of something as awful as this.
 
Ron Mexico said:
Its sad that so many of these conspiracy theory people are smearing this guys name. He seems like an outstanding person and should receive thanks for what he did not have his name dragged through the dirt. He even refused to take money from Ellen for what he did.

The reality is that conspiracy theories often hurt people and are based on nothing. People want to make these grand connections but they are simply made up in their head. Once they express those ideas others latch on to them and it is very difficult for even the truth and facts to change their mind. This is a horrific act that happened and people feel the need to justify this act with some wild story because the truth is too simple.

People who push conspiracy theories without solid evidence and facts are hurting people and causing problems. They need to stop it, it is wrong. They also shift attention away from the real problems and from real corrupt people doing bad things. Just focus on the facts and evidence not on wild stories that help you justify something or cope with the reality of something as awful as this.
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Just ask Richard Jewell. The conspiracy theorists, excuse me, media and FBI, completely destroyed this guy's life.
 
That guard was apparently just laying low and is now doing an interview on the Ellen DeGeneres show lol
 
[MENTION=3085]Red[/MENTION]

Sorry I've been unable to address your comments lately. I thought I should actually read Snyder's piece you referenced. And I still haven't done that.

Of course I was guessing, well, assuming, from your comments some time ago regarding your association with some SW native American individuals whom you referred to as influential in your world view particularly regarding very ancient peoples of that area, that you might have done some stuff like say a sweat lodge fellowship or other "spiritual" experiences from that local culture. I really don't know much about it, never been very interested in the native American traditions. I was from my youth a fairly modern sort of scientific, analytical sort of person who considered the ancients mere superstitious fakirs.... Lately, oh say in the past ten years, on the suspicion that my mother in law might be right about being a Cherokee, indulged in a number of CD productions on native americans and their history. The mil looks like she could be somehow a native American of some degree, but the allegation has been factually rebutted by the family genealogist. Who knows, maybe he's wrong.

More recently, I have been reviewing some Mormon "defenders of the faith" who have hatched up a whole lot of CDs on their "heartland model" including a lot of material on the mound builders or Hopewell culture. Some "conspiracy theorists" decrying John Wesley Powell allege there's ruins hidden in the Grand Canyon that nobody is being allowed to examine, and other such stuff. John Wesley Powell, apparently, was born in Palmyra, New York the son of Methodist minister who was one of first on task to destroy Joseph Smith's claims, who together with a friend from the same place and time who became influential as a official of the Smithsonian, have been burying all kinds of stuff people have found (or made) that would indicate some influence during the 600 BC- 400AD period of the Hebrews, including the ancient Cherokee writing system which some have correlated to an ancient block form of Hebrew.....

Well, anyway, I think anyone who correlates Trump with nationalism or any other sort of definable system of views, has got to be a wild-eyed conspiracy theorist, orders of magnitude beyond mere defenders of the Mormon faith.

Trump is just too smart to lock down on ideological systems. He just doesn't care about anything but making government more sensible somehow, in his view. He doesn't care about the CFR. He knows who they are and he's willing to make any deal he can to get their help on something he somehow thinks will work better. He doesn't care about the Constitution, but he'll try to placate those who talk about it just enough to get them on board with some practical plan to make stuff work better. Clearly, he thinks Obama and Hillary are alright people, just too stupid to see good solutions to practical problems. That's his only beef with anyone.

When he's done his term(s), he'll look back and point to stuff he did that made a difference, but he'll go back to building other stuff. He really doesn't care about the Presidency. He doesn't care to fight "globalism" except to make better deals for America. He's no more complicated than that.
 
babe said:
[MENTION=3085]Red[/MENTION]
Trump is just too smart to lock down on ideological systems. He just doesn't care about anything but making government more sensible somehow, in his view. He doesn't care about the CFR. He knows who they are and he's willing to make any deal he can to get their help on something he somehow thinks will work better. He doesn't care about the Constitution, but he'll try to placate those who talk about it just enough to get them on board with some practical plan to make stuff work better. Clearly, he thinks Obama and Hillary are alright people, just too stupid to see good solutions to practical problems. That's his only beef with anyone.
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Remind me, how are you related to Donald again?

Or are you talking about some other Trump besides Donald I am not familiar with?
 
@The "Conspiracy Theorist" task force of JFC..... that would include Ron and BP at least, I suppose....

So, as Conspiracy Theories go, generally...... whenever politicians lock down on any event to push for gun control.... the first "Conspiracy Theory" you should debunk is the mythology of gun control measures being somehow effective in preventing criminal or psychiatric case mayhem. If you can prevent that kind of craziness, I'm pretty sure the "conspiracy theorists" of the anti-gun control sort would lose all their ammo.

But as long as totally committed 2nd-Ammendment deniers keep trying to convert tragedies into "progress", people will keep asking "why".
 
babe said:
@The "Conspiracy Theorist" task force of JFC..... that would include Ron and BP at least, I suppose....

So, as Conspiracy Theories go, generally...... whenever politicians lock down on any event to push for gun control.... the first "Conspiracy Theory" you should debunk is the mythology of gun control measures being somehow effective in preventing criminal or psychiatric case mayhem. If you can prevent that kind of craziness, I'm pretty sure the "conspiracy theorists" of the anti-gun control sort would lose all their ammo.

But as long as totally committed 2nd-Ammendment deniers keep trying to convert tragedies into "progress", people will keep asking "why".
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Do you have anything to back that up? Or just your opinion? Stats (I know you dont believe in those but...) have shown lower gun ownership or gun control directly equals less gun violence and suicides. It even keeps cops more safe, since states with less gun ownership have less cops shot in the line of duty.

Are you grouping me as a 2nd-Ammendment denier? I am a gun owner and do not think guns should be taken away. I guess we could discuss what the second amendment even means since it is only recently that it has been changed from its original meaning of militia gun rights to mean individual gun rights. A push that took conservative groups a long time to change the meaning of and get it passed in court.

Honestly I think you and Archie would really enjoy watching the Adam ruins everything episode on conspiracies. I am all for conspiracy theories or at least exposing corruption and problems assuming there is solid evidence that is well researched before putting harmful information out there, that you cannot take back.
 
babe said:
[MENTION=3085]Red[/MENTION]

Sorry I've been unable to address your comments lately. I thought I should actually read Snyder's piece you referenced. And I still haven't done that.

Of course I was guessing, well, assuming, from your comments some time ago regarding your association with some SW native American individuals whom you referred to as influential in your world view particularly regarding very ancient peoples of that area, that you might have done some stuff like say a sweat lodge fellowship or other "spiritual" experiences from that local culture. I really don't know much about it, never been very interested in the native American traditions. I was from my youth a fairly modern sort of scientific, analytical sort of person who considered the ancients mere superstitious fakirs.... Lately, oh say in the past ten years, on the suspicion that my mother in law might be right about being a Cherokee, indulged in a number of CD productions on native americans and their history. The mil looks like she could be somehow a native American of some degree, but the allegation has been factually rebutted by the family genealogist. Who knows, maybe he's wrong.

More recently, I have been reviewing some Mormon "defenders of the faith" who have hatched up a whole lot of CDs on their "heartland model" including a lot of material on the mound builders or Hopewell culture. Some "conspiracy theorists" decrying John Wesley Powell allege there's ruins hidden in the Grand Canyon that nobody is being allowed to examine, and other such stuff. John Wesley Powell, apparently, was born in Palmyra, New York the son of Methodist minister who was one of first on task to destroy Joseph Smith's claims, who together with a friend from the same place and time who became influential as a official of the Smithsonian, have been burying all kinds of stuff people have found (or made) that would indicate some influence during the 600 BC- 400AD period of the Hebrews, including the ancient Cherokee writing system which some have correlated to an ancient block form of Hebrew.....

Well, anyway, I think anyone who correlates Trump with nationalism or any other sort of definable system of views, has got to be a wild-eyed conspiracy theorist, orders of magnitude beyond mere defenders of the Mormon faith.

Trump is just too smart to lock down on ideological systems. He just doesn't care about anything but making government more sensible somehow, in his view. He doesn't care about the CFR. He knows who they are and he's willing to make any deal he can to get their help on something he somehow thinks will work better. He doesn't care about the Constitution, but he'll try to placate those who talk about it just enough to get them on board with some practical plan to make stuff work better. Clearly, he thinks Obama and Hillary are alright people, just too stupid to see good solutions to practical problems. That's his only beef with anyone.

When he's done his term(s), he'll look back and point to stuff he did that made a difference, but he'll go back to building other stuff. He really doesn't care about the Presidency. He doesn't care to fight "globalism" except to make better deals for America. He's no more complicated than that.
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You have been consistent on Trump as this honest arbiter for the greater good, but are shifting in specifically what that means.

In particular, you have previously described him as someone who isn't interested in political ideology, but who wholeheartedly believes in the Constitution and will do whatever it takes to return us to a Constitutional form of government. That position is no longer tenable so you have "evolved" you fantasy as to who Trump is, still describing him as "too smart." I think we're pretty close to the point where you're going to have to evolve out of that position, as well.

Love ya, babe.

My recent crusade against noise was at no point directed towards you. Although I think you talk outside the point, and I also think you often bring slanders that don't belong against the people you disagree with (me, I'm sensitive), you are attempting to say something. It is hard to understand... often. It is not directly related to the specific discussion... often. But I want to make clear that I hold you in a different, much higher regard than I do the likes of Boris. With Dutch, it's more an annoyance with what I see as an intentional effort to disrupt meaningful discussion. I bet he has interesting things to say, but he's more interested in making noise and repetitive, meaningless comments than engaging with people.

I will try to be more respectful to you. I think I have acted beneath myself in my interactions with you for some time. Not to say I will be nice. But I will make an effort to understand what you are saying and respond in a substantive way.
 
Bulletproof said:
You have been consistent on Trump as this honest arbiter for the greater good, but are shifting in specifically what that means.

In particular, you have previously described him as someone who isn't interested in political ideology, but who wholeheartedly believes in the Constitution and will do whatever it takes to return us to a Constitutional form of government. That position is no longer tenable so you have "evolved" you fantasy as to who Trump is, still describing him as "too smart." I think we're pretty close to the point where you're going to have to evolve out of that position, as well.

Love ya, babe.

My recent crusade against noise was at no point directed towards you. Although I think you talk outside the point, and I also think you often bring slanders that don't belong against the people you disagree with (me, I'm sensitive), you are attempting to say something. It is hard to understand... often. It is not directly related to the specific discussion... often. But I want to make clear that I hold you in a different, much higher regard than I do the likes of Boris. With Dutch, it's more an annoyance with what I see as an intentional effort to disrupt meaningful discussion. I bet he has interesting things to say, but he's more interested in making noise and repetitive, meaningless comments than engaging with people.

I will try to be more respectful to you. I think I have acted beneath myself in my interactions with you for some time. Not to say I will be nice. But I will make an effort to understand what you are saying and respond in a substantive way.
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Well, thank you for a substantiative response with clarifications.

My first notion of Trump when he first announced his candiadacy was along the lines that I thought he was "Hillary's Perot". For those who don't know, Bill Clinton defeated GHW Bush's bid for a second term because a cantankerous Texan who hated GHWB ran as a third party, dividing Republican votes principally. Trump, I knew, had contributed a lot of money to the Clintons, and hobnobbed with them. He even called them to give them advance notice of his candidacy. Another self-financed "Republican" dividing the Republicans looked to me like the same play. I would have voted for almost any of the 16 candidates except Jeb.

I've always considered Trump "non-ideological". I believe Roger Stone, a devout antagonist of CFR establishment men, was influential with Trump to get him to run, and supply him with some points about what needed to be done to "Make America Great Again". I was pleased with the Gorsuch nomination basically because of the kind of thinking I thought Gorsuch represented, though I suspect him of having ties enough with establishment folks.

When I refer to anyone as "too smart" I use the term rhetorically as a synonym for self-centered pride, often somewhat justified. But always flawed, as in "not as smart as babe", LOL.

And yes, I'm disappointed in much of what Trump has done so far, and it looks to me like he will make little difference in the way things are....

I'm also really disappointed about Jason Chaffetz quitting and Gov. Herbert anointing Curtis as his replacement. I might vote democratic on this one.....nah... I'll do the Libertarian this time.
 
Ron Mexico said:
Do you have anything to back that up? Or just your opinion? Stats (I know you dont believe in those but...) have shown lower gun ownership or gun control directly equals less gun violence and suicides. It even keeps cops more safe, since states with less gun ownership have less cops shot in the line of duty.

Are you grouping me as a 2nd-Ammendment denier? I am a gun owner and do not think guns should be taken away. I guess we could discuss what the second amendment even means since it is only recently that it has been changed from its original meaning of militia gun rights to mean individual gun rights. A push that took conservative groups a long time to change the meaning of and get it passed in court.

Honestly I think you and Archie would really enjoy watching the Adam ruins everything episode on conspiracies. I am all for conspiracy theories or at least exposing corruption and problems assuming there is solid evidence that is well researched before putting harmful information out there, that you cannot take back.
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yah, the post you responded to was totally unhinged personal opinion, spruced out as originally as I could craft it. I know BP regularly downs CT stuff, as you have been doing, but I recognize that he does have a stand in favor of gun users who are willing to play by the rules. I had no idea where you come down on that issue.... so of course, I am pretty much talking about the politicians like Nancy Pelosi who sometimes lack the temerity to deny they'd really love to see all the guns gone as in the UN sort of future world of totally regulated armies and police being the exclusive club of responsible and accountable gun toters.

And whatever the CT ilk of the day may be, it is the vision of humanity unable to command a little respect from their rulers that fuels their suspicions....
 
babe said:
I'm also really disappointed about Jason Chaffetz quitting and Gov. Herbert anointing Curtis as his replacement. I might vote democratic on this one.....nah... I'll do the Libertarian this time.
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What's your beef with Curtis? He was a great mayor in Provo. He was very transparent and involved which are two traits I appreciate. Having personally met him multiple times he seems like an pretty upstanding person.

I do fear he has decided to push the Republican platform now, based on his latest campaign adds. I assume getting support and funding depend on that. He is running in the most red area in a very red state though. The only way to win that position is to be a staunch Republican. More people straight ticket vote Republican than people who vote anything else traditionally.

If it has to be a Republican Mormon to win that position I think he is one of the better options. And it definitely has to be a Mormon Republican to win that seat.
 
Ron Mexico said:
What's your beef with Curtis? He was a great mayor in Provo. He was very transparent and involved which are two traits I appreciate. Having personally met him multiple times he seems like an pretty upstanding person.

I do fear he has decided to push the Republican platform now, based on his latest campaign adds. I assume getting support and funding depend on that. He is running in the most red area in a very red state though. The only way to win that position is to be a staunch Republican. More people straight ticket vote Republican than people who vote anything else traditionally.

If it has to be a Republican Mormon to win that position I think he is one of the better options. And it definitely has to be a Mormon Republican to win that seat.
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He's really a democrat pretending to be R, as in RINO all the way. Smooth enough to say whatever it'll take to collect all those dimwitted trusting Mo R voters. I think he's as phoney as a 3$ bill. I've known a few "people people" who can read you like an open book and tell anyone whatever they want to hear.

I like the awkward, tongue-tied sort of politician who will vote the way his people expect. . . .

my wife was a lobbyist some years ago around the UT legislature, was surprised he switched R when he moved, said he really hasn't changed at all.
 
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