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Sorry Jazz fans – Ben is the NBA Rookie of the Year

Tom349 said:
So much **** being said in this thread. Mitchell is ridiculous as a rookie but Simmons is on much higher level. The two are not comparable and half the suggestions as to why Mitchell is more deserving in this thread are a flat out insult to Mitchells team mates. With the exception of Embid no other player in the sixers starting line up is better than any other player in the Jazz starting line up and even then Embiid is only marginally better than Gobert. Any talk that Simmons has an advantage in this area is ridiculous as they don't come close, Mitchell is surrounded by far better players. The only real advantage Simmons has is he is surrounded by more shooters and to a certain extent that does help his assist numbers but that doesn't mean their better shooters score on every look Simmons creates for them. While a big reason as to why Simmons is surrounded by better shooters is he is worth being built around and is one of only a handful of guys in the league who it is worth building a team around. Simmons is a game changer and that is far more important than Mitchell who is clutch, Mitchell has the potential to get close to Simmons level in this area but to do that he needs to shoot pull up 3's at a greater percentage (currently shoots them around 30%). Needs to be able to shoot them at Dame levels.

Anyhow the biggest problem I have with this Mitchell ROY debate is the lack of respect it gives to Ingles and Rubio who are actually the more important players for our offense. They are the ones who run the offense, yes Mitchell scores more points but the offense is run through Ingles and Rubio and they do a better job of setting up their team mates than Mitchell does while also scoring at an efficient rate. Over time Mitchell will get better at running the offense and scoring more efficiently but for the time being he is still a rookie and has work to do before he is running the offense and not just scoring.
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Shut up Tom, you are a weak *** rookie

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Simmons’ statistics are misleading. He is a 6’9” ball dominant point forward.

I think that most people point to assists when they make the Simmons ROY argument. For instance, if there were a rookie forward averaging 16p/8r as a rookie, that would be very good, but not “historical.”

Simmons can get so many assists because of the way the 6ers offense is built around a primary ball distributor. To his credit, Simmons has court vision that many point forwards do not have, which allows him this role.

Utah’s style, with many hockey assists and a lot of ball movement, spread the assists out over many people, rather than rely on one distributor. Look at Rubio, who is having a career year but has lower assist totals.

All of this to say the differentiating factor between Ben and DM, assists, is not as meaningful as it appears on paper.
 
Does anyone know the total record this year of eastern conference teams vs. western conference?
 
Soothsayer said:
Simmons’ statistics are misleading. He is a 6’9” ball dominant point forward.

I think that most people point to assists when they make the Simmons ROY argument. For instance, if there were a rookie forward averaging 16p/8r as a rookie, that would be very good, but not “historical.”

Simmons can get so many assists because of the way the 6ers offense is built around a primary ball distributor. To his credit, Simmons has court vision that many point forwards do not have, which allows him this role.

Utah’s style, with many hockey assists and a lot of ball movement, spread the assists out over many people, rather than rely on one distributor. Look at Rubio, who is having a career year but has lower assist totals.

All of this to say the differentiating factor between Ben and DM, assists, is not as meaningful as it appears on paper.
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That coupled w the fact that Simmons has the 2nd highest amount of touches in the league (50% more than DM) and an avg time per possession of almost double DM. Any player w the ball that much better have a lot of assists and other stats.
 
What's mitchells flaws in his game? Very little. What's Simmons flaws? He cant shoot free throws or literally anything over 10 feet from the basket. Based on that you have a case for the Don to win it.

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JAZZGASM said:
That coupled w the fact that Simmons has the 2nd highest amount of touches in the league (50% more than DM) and an avg time per possession of almost double DM. Any player w the ball that much better have a lot of assists and other stats.
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I did not know this. Good info.
 
utahjazzz said:
Simmons has a true shooting percentage of 55%, what is Mitchell's true shooting %?

Not to mention Ben is a better defender, passer and rebounder.
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The reason why there is a belief that Simmons is better is that the difference in 3pt% shooting cannot be measured. Whenever I try calculation the difference I get "undefined" value. Apparently, when you divide a number by zero you get undefined.

I think it would have been better for Mitchell if Simmons hit at least one 3pter. Then you could at least see that Mitchell is at least 4x better in that category.
 
gomretat said:
Pretty shocking that a publication from Australia thinks an Aussie should be ROY. For sure that is the end of the debate.
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It's not even a real publication. It's a multi-author blog. Some contributors have a clue, others, not so much.

And there is no guarantee the OP isn't the author, either.
 
Hitman said:
It's not even a real publication. It's a multi-author blog. Some contributors have a clue, others, not so much.

And there is no guarantee the OP isn't the author, either.
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I don't mind pick and roll i check in every couple of days to see if there is anything worth reading.
 
I think Im going to hold off on the Lebron comparisons and generational talent with Simmons until dude can shoot 3 pointers and free throws. We are talking about the modern NBA where shooting the 3 is a big deal. I like the rest of Simmons game, but thats a pretty big hole in his game.

Stats are overrated. What Donavan is doing is more impressive. Period. I couldn't care less that Simmons averages more rebounds, shoots a higher percentage, gets more blocks, gets more assists, etc.. for all the obvious reasons. Donavan has virtually no holes in his game, doing it in his real first year, is way more exciting, and is 7 inches shorter than Simmons.

Give me go to clutch guy over stat padder guy every day of the week.
 
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Gas said:
I think Im going to hold off on the Lebron comparisons and generational talent with Simmons until dude can shoot 3 pointers and free throws. We are talking about the modern NBA where shooting the 3 is a big deal. I like the rest of Simmons game, but thats a pretty big hole in his game.

Stats are overrated. What Donavan is doing is more impressive. Period. I couldn't care less that Simmons averages more rebounds, shoots a higher percentage, gets more blocks, gets more assists, etc.. for all the obvious reasons. Donavan has virtually no holes in his game, doing it in his real first year, is way more exciting, and is 7 inches shorter than Simmons.

Give me go to clutch guy over stat padder guy every day of the week.
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He already has a 10 feet jump shot. The 3 balls will come in his 3nd or 4th year
 
Gas said:
We talking about now bruh. And you dont know the future. I could just say Donavan gonna average 40 by his 3rd year.
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He is already one of the best rookies ever in the nba without the 3 balls. Probably one of the top 5 rookies of all time in the nba. Why do you need to shoot the 3s when you can score inside the paint at will like Simmons? It will be all over for the rest the league even if Ben becomes an average 3 pt shooter.
 
utahjazzz said:
He is already one of the best rookies ever in the nba without the 3 balls. Probably one of the top 5 rookies of all time in the nba. Why do you need to shoot the 3s when you can score inside the paint at will like Simmons? It will be all over for the rest the league even if Ben becomes an average 3 pt shooter.
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Without the 3 balls???? When did you count them?
 
Isn’t Mitchell so awesome? We are so lucky to have him. The success of another takes nothing away from him whatsoever.
 
There were almost 50 nba rookies who averaged 20+ points per game for their first nba regular season. Mitchell is one of them.

OTOH, There were only 2 nba rookies ever who had 1200 pts, 600 rebounds, 600 assists for their debut season, Oscar robertson and Ben simmons. Mitchell is a " once a half decade talent ", but Simmons is an once in a life time talent.
 
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