Sorry Jazz fans – Ben is the NBA Rookie of the Year

[Et tu Brute]

once again Ron mexico is speaking out of his ***. Ben was the best player in both game 1 and 2 of the series.

Probably going with Wade for game 2.

Across both games - sure Ben has been great.

 

[silesian]

I mean, it's happened 3 times in the last 50 years so 6%, guy.

How many co-ROYs under the system started in the 2002-2003 season, "guy"?

Hint: it is a number less than 1.

 

[silesian]

But I did find out in this thread that 15ppg is scoring at will so apparently the NBA has 50+ players that can score at will. So he has that going for him.
.

You think "Scoring at will" is the same as "number of points scored per game"? You are much too smart to think these things.

 

[Ron Mexico]

You think "Scoring at will" is the same as "number of points scored per game"? You are much too smart to think these things.

I'm making fun of him for claiming Simmons scores at will but only averages 15 ppg.

 

[Ron Mexico]

I think you're grading him on a curve.

A helluva lot of assists are dribble hand-offs and 'simple' passes to the right man etc. I have already admitted to this being part of his 'inflated' assists.

He also threaded some neat passes to players directly under the net. At least 4-5 in the playoffs so far.

He also has gravity where he pulls defenders off their opponents - sometimes just an extra step as they are hedging a little on clogging the lanes. Ben dissects that pretty well.

He also had two putbacks off his own misses in the first game. So his 5/13 was a bit misleading. It's like darts. If you have 3 darts to hit your double and you do it with your third dart, the result is still the same.

I don't hear you breakdown his defense much. He almost never gets scored on. And players often shift the ball away from him when he is matched up with them. He has a strong deterrent factor. He literally guards 1-4 in almost equal allotments and can guard some 5s.

LOL at the comments about free throws. When he misses them he is derided - now that he has made a respectable 11/16 it is stat padding. Give me a friggin break.

He finished a number of imposing drives tonight, and was generally unstoppable. I am convinced he doesn't realize how difficult he is to contain when he rumbles into the paint. The refs are calling some bs offensive fouls on him recently.

Across the 2 playoff games he has clearly been the best player in that series.

Of course I'm grading him on a curve, I said he had a subpar game and he did. That is obviously in comparison to himself. I'm not comparing him to a 10 day contract player.

I don't think this is responding to me.

I did talk about his defense.

I said multiple times his free throws were good both games and looked good.

But if you think he said clearly the best player game 1 then there is no convincing you. You will see what you want to see with you Simmon's glasses on. Stats and the eye test don't back that up.

 

[silesian]

I'm making fun of him for claiming Simmons scores at will but only averages 15 ppg.

Well, "at will" may be a bit strong, but generally, I agree with him. Simmons easily gets into the paint and scores over defenders. He just chooses to prioritize facilitation over scoring.

Very different players, but Stockton could have regularly scored 20 ppg. We saw this when he chose to take over games (game 6 Houston). But he felt his team would be better with the assists.

 

[Rubashov]

Of course I'm grading him on a curve, I said he had a subpar game and he did. That is obviously in comparison to himself. I'm not comparing him to a 10 day contract player.

I don't think this is responding to me.

I did talk about his defense.

I said multiple times his free throws were good both games and looked good.

But if you think he said clearly the best player game 1 then there is no convincing you. You will see what you want to see with you Simmon's glasses on. Stats and the eye test don't back that up.

Christ this thread is *****, Ron got any thoughts on the cricket?

 

[Ron Mexico]

Well, "at will" may be a bit strong, but generally, I agree with him. Simmons easily gets into the paint and scores over defenders. He just chooses to prioritize facilitation over scoring.

Very different players, but Stockton could have regularly scored 20 ppg. We saw this when he chose to take over games (game 6 Houston). But he felt his team would be better with the assists.

That's not scoring at will. If Simmon's could score at will then he would take over games offensively. He would put up big numbers. Getting into the paint easily isn't scoring at will.

Maybe it's just how you define scoring at will though.

No one can score at will but chooses not to in the NBA.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Christ this thread is *****, Ron got any thoughts on the cricket?

I like how they sound at night. Their noises put me to sleep.

They taste okay and are a good renewable source of protein.

 

[kabenac]

Kevin Garnett - one of the meanest, toughest, manipulative players on the court had praise for Mitchell:

https://www.deseretnews.com/article...ell-Kyle-Collinsworth-highlighted-on-TNT.html

"During his weekly "Area 21" show on TNT, the 15-time All-Star specifically noted how Mitchell has shouldered huge responsibility in leading the Jazz in scoring this season, and the former Minnesota, Boston and Brooklyn big man also loved Mitchell's "rookie" sweatshirt he wore last week to Utah's game against the Golden State Warriors.

"I like Donovan Mitchell, man, just because of the effect," Garnett said. "Most rookies take time to grow into something...Man, he is in it. He is in it.""

 

[Et tu Brute]

Of course I'm grading him on a curve, I said he had a subpar game and he did. That is obviously in comparison to himself. I'm not comparing him to a 10 day contract player.

I don't think this is responding to me.

I did talk about his defense.

I said multiple times his free throws were good both games and looked good.

But if you think he said clearly the best player game 1 then there is no convincing you. You will see what you want to see with you Simmon's glasses on. Stats and the eye test don't back that up.

You think the shooters had better games. Ok I can live with that 'analysis'.

Couldn't find anything you said about his defense... Maybe it was in another section of this thread.

I think you have biases too bro... Like this Simmons 'hate' has nothing to do with propping up Mitchell lol
Different players. Both incredible - which you repeatedly state. Just feels like you are annoyed that Simmons is getting more 'GOAT' talk than Mitch.

 

[Ron Mexico]

You think the shooters had better games. Ok I can live with that 'analysis'.

Couldn't find anything you said about his defense... Maybe it was in another section of this thread.

I think you have biases too bro... Like this Simmons 'hate' has nothing to do with propping up Mitchell lol
Different players. Both incredible - which you repeatedly state. Just feels like you are annoyed that Simmons is getting more 'GOAT' talk than Mitch.

Neither Simmons or Mitchell is getting goat talk, so that is a moot point. But yes I like to give you and other Simmons homers a hard time for being unreasonable. Such as thinking Simmons is in a GOAT conversation. Yes, I find it slightly annoying that you and utahjazzz post more about Simmons than about the Jazz who is your supposed favorite team, but I know a lot of it is just trolling. But mostly I like talking about him and showing his flaws that he has a bunch of because you guys loose your minds about it and freak out. So yes, some of it is trolling from me but I guess some of you cant take your own medicine.

I definitely have biases, every sports fan does. I like certain players more than others. I like the Jazz more than other teams and 76ers more than any East team. That makes me watch those teams and scrutinize players more and cheer for them more when I like them.

You are the one who thinks you dont have any bias for some strange reason.

There is no stat from game 1 that shows Simmons was the best player on the court. His teammates played at a very high level. Reddick and Belinilli were incredible and Saric was very good that game. +/-, PER, net rating and so on all show that Simmons had a low impact that game in comparison to his teammates and it was very obvious watching it. But I guess you already admitted that I could be right on this or at least its a reasonable conclusion so I guess we can move on.

I don't hate Simmon's. But between his quotes, his on court elbows and shoulders and more importantly homer fans like you he is hard to cheer for. Thankfully I really enjoy Embiid and his personality and think 76ers coach is great and has a great system. Brown has done wonders for Simmons as well stat wise and have a great team around him. I want him to help the team win though. I feel similar with Simmons that I used to feel with Boozer when he was on my favorite team the Jazz.

You are right it was in the other thread I talked about his defense, my bad. I get all these threads you Simmons homers like to talk about him in. Simmons is a good defender but he was subpar in that first game. He stood around flat footed and lost his guy a few times and got beat off the dribble more than usual. Again for your clarification he was still good but subpar for his usual defense.

He was much better game 2 all around except the final couple minutes when he was useless.

 

[Et tu Brute]

Neither Simmons or Mitchell is getting goat talk, so that is a moot point. But yes I like to give you and other Simmons homers a hard time for being unreasonable. Such as thinking Simmons is in a GOAT conversation. Yes, I find it slightly annoying that you and utahjazzz post more about Simmons than about the Jazz who is your supposed favorite team, but I know a lot of it is just trolling. But mostly I like talking about him and showing his flaws that he has a bunch of because you guys loose your minds about it and freak out. So yes, some of it is trolling from me but I guess some of you cant take your own medicine.

I definitely have biases, every sports fan does. I like certain players more than others. I like the Jazz more than other teams and 76ers more than any East team. That makes me watch those teams and scrutinize players more and cheer for them more when I like them.

You are the one who thinks you dont have any bias for some strange reason.

There is no stat from game 1 that shows Simmons was the best player on the court. His teammates played at a very high level. Reddick and Belinilli were incredible and Saric was very good that game. +/-, PER, net rating and so on all show that Simmons had a low impact that game in comparison to his teammates and it was very obvious watching it. But I guess you already admitted that I could be right on this or at least its a reasonable conclusion so I guess we can move on.

I don't hate Simmon's. But between his quotes, his on court elbows and shoulders and more importantly homer fans like you he is hard to cheer for. Thankfully I really enjoy Embiid and his personality and think 76ers coach is great and has a great system. Brown has done wonders for Simmons as well stat wise and have a great team around him. I want him to help the team win though. I feel similar with Simmons that I used to feel with Boozer when he was on my favorite team the Jazz.

You are right it was in the other thread I talked about his defense, my bad. I get all these threads you Simmons homers like to talk about him in. Simmons is a good defender but he was subpar in that first game. He stood around flat footed and lost his guy a few times and got beat off the dribble more than usual. Again for your clarification he was still good but subpar for his usual defense.

He was much better game 2 all around except the final couple minutes when he was useless.

Interesting stuff. I was being facetious with the GOAT thing, but Simmons is being talked up as the next big thing all the time. And although Mitchell gets a lot of attention, he is not talked about in the same capacity. That would be annoying to Jazz fans in general... I get that.

Hey, what is your Philly affiliation. Did you mention liking AI?

I feel like I have generally been restrained in responding to your back and forth with Utahjazz. Honestly, I am not a troll. Just a fan from another country. So I am a bit further removed from other US Jazz fans.

Utahjazz literally likes trolling you guys for whatever reason.

I am indeed biased, but am expressing views I hold (whether they are wrong is clearly possible), not views desiged to irrirate you and others. And I am aware that talking about someone like Simmons is extremely awkward on a Jazz forum given so many factors. Not least of which is the 'rivalry' between him and Mitchell. Maybe that means that defending Simmons does count as trolling, cause such is 'unnatural' and unusual on a rival's fansite. Especially given my Aussie bias etc....

I totally get the angst toward posters like me who have an allegiance seemingly to Aussies first and Jazz second. It's not altogether wrong.

I do post about Jazz related things a lot. I think it's only these last few weeks that this became an issue re: ROTY.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Watching Philly last night and in certain scenarios they use bens lack of a jumper to their advantage... running a shooter of a DHO left Marco and JJ wide open because Bens guy was so far off... made me want to go get Ellington, Korver, or JJ this offseason as shooting off Goberts HOs would have the same effect... maybe even using Ricky as the screener.

Any other gettable guys that kill it running off screens?

 

[str8line]

Simmons could be(come) one of the nastiest dudes to ever play in the NBA.

For your consideration, two plays, a vicious elbow to Stanley Johnson and a hard shoulder to Morris:

http://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/video/ben-simmons-pick-flagrant-foul-4th

 

[Knowledgeofmine]

Watching Philly last night and in certain scenarios they use bens lack of a jumper to their advantage... running a shooter of a DHO left Marco and JJ wide open because Bens guy was so far off... made me want to go get Ellington, Korver, or JJ this offseason as shooting off Goberts HOs would have the same effect... maybe even using Ricky as the screener.

Any other gettable guys that kill it running off screens?

Serious? Gober t doesn't have the handles and can't take people off the dribble do not would never work. Bball 101 man. Go back to the jv court

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Watching Philly last night and in certain scenarios they use bens lack of a jumper to their advantage... running a shooter of a DHO left Marco and JJ wide open because Bens guy was so far off... made me want to go get Ellington, Korver, or JJ this offseason as shooting off Goberts HOs would have the same effect... maybe even using Ricky as the screener.

Any other gettable guys that kill it running off screens?

Answering my own question... Joe Harris and Pat Connaughton are both good off screens... Joe Ingles too, but not sure he gets his shot off quick enough. Otto Porter is fantastic at it, but not many attempts. Anywell... back to work.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Serious? Gober t doesn't have the handles and can't take people off the dribble do not would never work. Bball 101 man. Go back to the jv court

Dood u serious? It's not the threat of the drive. It's Gobert gets the ball at the top of the key... like he always does and you run a knock down shooter (think JJ reddick off the ball screen) and if Gobert's guy doesn't play up then the shooter gets an open look. Prevents the big from just camping in the paint.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Serious? Gober t doesn't have the handles and can't take people off the dribble do not would never work. Bball 101 man. Go back to the jv court

Watch Philly play... the space they gave up to Ben became space that JJ and Marco got when he set the screen... we could do the same thing with Gobert... doesn't have to be a DHO, just a ball screen. If the shooter can also pass it will open up the Gobert roll to the rim.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Interesting stuff. I was being facetious with the GOAT thing, but Simmons is being talked up as the next big thing all the time. And although Mitchell gets a lot of attention, he is not talked about in the same capacity. That would be annoying to Jazz fans in general... I get that.

I dont think any Jazz fans care about that. Mitchell gets a ton of positive attention around the league. He has the respect of most players in the league and outside of Philly/Simmons fans the respect of fans.

I think it is the other way around. Simmons fans cant handle Mitchell's attention and feel a need to belittle him to prop up their guy. Most Jazz fans can admit Simmons is really good and see where there is an argument for ROY of the year with him. Simmons/76ers fans are incapable of doing the same the other way. To me its entertaining, you Simmons fans get very worked up about everything positive said about Mitchell and any body commenting on the many flaws of Simmons game.

Hey, what is your Philly affiliation. Did you mention liking AI?

I was a huge Allen Iverson fan when he was with Philly. This has made me like them and keep an eye on them ever since. Embiid has made me enjoy watching them again.

Utahjazz literally likes trolling you guys for whatever reason.

He is just like most other 76ers and/or Simmons fan. I enjoy giving him a hard time because he makes himself look really dumb over and over again. Interactions with him irritate some people on this board but they make me laugh. Although I dont really understand the people who are irritated by him and dont just put him on ignore.

I totally get the angst toward posters like me who have an allegiance seemingly to Aussies first and Jazz second. It's not altogether wrong.

We are very used to this happening and know that most of you will be gone when the players leave. We have had it with Russian fans, Turkey fans and so on over the years. Some of the good ones will stick around. We have some great posters from Turkey still despite Okur and Kanter being gone. It also happens with college team fans when we draft their guy. Its just a part of sports. But it is fun to give them a hard time when they are irrational. Such as people on this board who think Exum is being mistreated by Snyder or held back by him.


So here are my questions for you.

Who is your ROY vote?

Who had a better game 1 performance in the playoffs Mitchell or Simmons?