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Sorry Jazz fans – Ben is the NBA Rookie of the Year

utahjazzz said:
10 points from 16 shots. yuck
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Simmons averages 41% from 3-10 feet from the basket.
31% from 10-16 feet.
46% of his shots were taken less than 3 feet away from the basket! He is taking absolutely no risk! You have to take risk when you are the star and the only point guard 6 ft 10 that the league has ever seen! (Magic was 6"9).
 
Lakers_Slapper said:
10 feet from the basket? This is what you argue?? He takes advantage of a rare mis match and scores from within 10 feet, and this is what you have??? Allow me to drop knowledge on you again. Have you watched basketball? The perimeter game is a must for a point guard in the NBA today. I'm not even saying Simmons is a bad player, but you are so tunnel vision in your way of thinking there is no reasoning with you. I will be the first to admit that Simmons is going to be a great player. But he is 2 years away from being 2 years away. That's not a bad thing, it just is where he is at. If he is going to help his team he needs to develop and he will. That goes for any player that has been in the league for less than 5 years.
I know you are going to say that he passes well and rebounds well. I will say this. He has great court vision. That court vision will be valuable when he can drain a perimeter shot because the defense will be forced to guard him. That will enable him to use his speed, length and passing ability, or shooting ability (from within 10 feet) to maximize the situation.
His rebounding- Have you noticed an increase in triple doubles over the last 3 years. And when I say an increase I mean upwards of 110-180% increase. That's not saying that it's bad, but it lays out math that has to be accounted for. A triple double today is not special unless it contributes to team efficiency. Guards can get more rebounds now, because the game has changed. Its become a game of possessions and 3 point shots. More possessions= faster pace + more 3's attempted, made x missed = longer rebounds = opportunity for a rebound for a point guard.
There is no denying a few things that you are denying and even though its not a negative you get so defensive it becomes easy for someone like me with deep knowledge of the game to rip you apart limb by limb. And that is, Simmons is a liability on offense when the game is close and within grasping. He is even more of a liability in big games, like the playoffs. He is at this point incapable of making an NBA 3 pointer. He is a point guard even at 6"10 he is a point guard and you have to make 3's as a point guard whether you are pass-first or not. He also has to increase his free throw average by at least 27% to be effective. Right now the defense can foul Simmons and not worry about the points because it will increase their possessions. You can call this "my own opinion" but it's facts.
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Even without the 3s he is going to be an multiple allstar, defensive 1st team, mvps contender, hall of famer. Nothing you say is going to change that.

He is a liability on offense? He averaged 16pg and was 2nd among all rookies in scoring in the regular season. How is that a liability? 80% of nba players dont even averages 16pg in a season.
 
dong2ha said:
don’t even try.... He doesn’t know basketball. He probably don’t know why warriors and rockets are good and why most of nba teams play small ball....


Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz
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Your right! It drives me absolutely crazy when someone who claims to be a fan doesn't even comprehend the basic fundamentals of the game but tries to spit advanced knowledge.
utahjazzz said:
Even without the 3s he is going to be an multiple allstar, defensive 1st team, mvps contender, hall of famer. Nothing you say is going to change that.

He is a liability on offense? He averaged 16pg and was 2nd among all rookies in scoring in the regular season. How is that a liability? 80% of nba players dont even averages 16pg in a season.
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This dude doesn't read. If you knew how to read I was telling you he will be a great player, but isn't there yet and this is why.......... Bla Bla Bla. And you obviously didn't read that or anything because this is your response. You are the type of person who probably looks ok on the outside, approachable, etc. Then you open your mouth and speak and that's when everyone realizes that they've been conversing with the peanut gallery. Why are you still up? Oh that's right, tomorrow is Saturday and your elementary school isn't open on Saturdays. Does mom know your still awake?
 
Lakers_Slapper said:
Your right! It drives me absolutely crazy when someone who claims to be a fan doesn't even comprehend the basic fundamentals of the game but tries to spit advanced knowledge.


This dude doesn't read. If you knew how to read I was telling you he will be a great player, but isn't there yet and this is why.......... Bla Bla Bla. And you obviously didn't read that or anything because this is your response. You are the type of person who probably looks ok on the outside, approachable, etc. Then you open your mouth and speak and that's when everyone realizes that they've been conversing with the peanut gallery. Why are you still up? Oh that's right, tomorrow is Saturday and your elementary school isn't open on Saturdays. Does mom know your still awake?
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come on, I agree with your comment that he needs to try to hit the 3s. It will come maybe in a year or 2. For the time being He is already very effective withhout the 3s by averaging 16/8/8/2. If he works on his perimeter game, he will eventually
get there. No player is perfect.
 
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Lakers_Slapper said:
Simmons averages 41% from 3-10 feet from the basket.
31% from 10-16 feet.
46% of his shots were taken less than 3 feet away from the basket! He is taking absolutely no risk! You have to take risk when you are the star and the only point guard 6 ft 10 that the league has ever seen! (Magic was 6"9).
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Maybe he is just too cautious, he does not want to take unnecsssary risks and hurt the team.
He is too unselfish as a franchise player as demonstrated by his 4 field goal attempts in the last game.
 
utahjazzz said:
come on, I agree with what your comment that he needs to try to hit the 3s. It will come maybe in a year or 2. For the time being He is already very effective withhout the 3s by averaging 16/8/8/2. If he works on his perimeter game, he will eventually
get there. No player is perfect.
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I'm not saying that he is not effective. He is. He will build a perimeter game too, at the moment, he doesn't have it. He does need it. When Magic came into the league he couldn't shoot from outside. He entered in 1979 the first year of the NBA 3 point line. Took him 10 years to be semi efficient from outside. The game has progressed, and the 3 is a must have for point guard in todays NBA. He has a lot of work to do. I think there's no question that he will develop the skills. Right now, he is a liability for a defense. He just is. You don't have to guard him at all on the perimeter. You can hang back as a defender. That changes things a lot if your the other team.
 
utahjazzz said:
Maybe he is just too cautious, he does not want to take unnecsssary risks and hurt the team.
He is too unselfish as a franchise player as demonstrated by his 4 field goal attempts in the last game.
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Too cautious, and too unselfish are not good traits to have as a star.
Jordan
Kobe
Lebron
Magic
Stockton
Bernard King
Abdul-Jabbar
Bird
Drexler
West
Chamberlain
Dr. J
ETC.
Have one thing in common. They took risk. At some point they took risk. When you are the star, you cannot NOT take risk if you want to win deep.
 
Lakers_Slapper said:
I'm not saying that he is not effective. He is. He will build a perimeter game too, at the moment, he doesn't have it. He does need it. When Magic came into the league he couldn't shoot from outside. He entered in 1979 the first year of the NBA 3 point line. Took him 10 years to be semi efficient from outside. The game has progressed, and the 3 is a must have for point guard in todays NBA. He has a lot of work to do. I think there's no question that he will develop the skills. Right now, he is a liability for a defense. He just is. You don't have to guard him at all on the perimeter. You can hang back as a defender. That changes things a lot if your the other team.
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yes, I agree. Might take him a few years to be an effective 3 point shooter.
 
Lakers_Slapper said:
Too cautious, and too unselfish are not good traits to have as a star.
Jordan
Kobe
Lebron
Magic
Stockton
Bernard King
Abdul-Jabbar
Bird
Drexler
West
Chamberlain
Dr. J
ETC.
Have one thing in common. They took risk. At some point they took risk. When you are the star, you cannot NOT take risk if you want to win deep.
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That is how Aussies players are brought up, to be a team player and unselfish.
Dante, ingles, simmons, maker, delly ~ all are unselfish players who put the team first
 
utahjazzz said:
That is how Aussies players are brought up, to be a team player and unselfish.
Dante, ingles, simmons, maker, delly ~ all are unselfish players who put the team first
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I get that. International basketball in any country has the same values.
But that brings me to my point. What is putting your team first?
When Jordan took over series after series and willed his team to 6 NBA Championships was that not putting his team first?
When Kobe drove his team and got through 5 rings was that not putting his team first?
Lebron has carried his team to 7 straight NBA finals, is that putting your team first?
Stockton led the Jazz through 18 playoff appearances in a row.
All I'm saying is when do you decide that what's best for your team, is to will them to victory? That's what greats do.
 
I was thinking of this thread and thinking y'all jinxed Mitchell and I'm blaming you guys for his poor game lol.

Clearly Mitchell's worst playoff performance and probably one of his 1 or 2 worst of his rookie campaign. I was calling for him to be subbed out after about 3min so he can calm down get some coaching so he can realize what's going on and make adjustments and then be subbed back in the last few minutes of the 1st qtr. It may not have helped but it was clear from the jump he was not seeing and reacting to what HOU was doing, very VERY disappointing performance to say the least.

I also believe the reason he checked back in late in the 3rd and early 4th was just to get him some sort of rythm and confidence for the next game.
 
Ben is a new version of Westbrook. In that I mean he's really special physical. He's an amazing athlete who has court awareness.

Don Mitch is a brilliant mind who plays basketball. What made Tim Duncan special? The simple fact that he is Tim Duncan. Donavan makes great decisions on the basketball court and has the physical ability to succeed.

There really is no question as to who is the ROY. Mitchell has proven that he WINS basketball games. Simmons has proven that he helps.
 
Eenie-Meenie said:
What I'm saying is that words only have power if you give it to them.
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This from someone who melts down when they feel they are disagreed with too strongly or regularly.

Eenie-Meenie said:
Tell me why when you say someone is retarded you're ridiculing them but when you say they're developmentally disabled, you're not.
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One term has long-standing social implications built into its usage, the other does not.
 
One Brow said:
This from someone who melts down when they feel they are disagreed with too strongly or regularly.

Ad hominem -- doesn't make my comment incorrect


One term has long-standing social implications built into its usage, the other does not.
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Agree, and that's the point -- e.g. when I grew up calling an Italn-Amn a ***, dago, or guinea was an insult. Now those terms are seldom used because they have lost their power, people don't care about them, etc. That's my whole point about words; honesty is best, euphemisms are dishonest -- they have "special needs." What does that mean, oh, I know, retarded, but the reason they're retarded is that their brain development is retarded, so let's call them, developmentally disabled. A retard doesn't care if you call him / her a retard, it's only other people who care. Stop giving power to the word. If you say someone's comment is retarded, well maybe it is. No reason to be offended. This is really about the political correctness issue, in my opinion. Will I use it in a group home of "retarded" people -- no because I know they will be offended. I guess that defeats my own argument, doesn't it? I still think a lot depends on the social context what words we should and should not use.
 
Eenie-Meenie said:
Agree, and that's the point -- e.g. when I grew up calling an Italn-Amn a ***, dago, or guinea was an insult. Now those terms are seldom used because they have lost their power, people don't care about them, etc. That's my whole point about words; honesty is best, euphemisms are dishonest -- they have "special needs." What does that mean, oh, I know, retarded, but the reason they're retarded is that their brain development is retarded, so let's call them, developmentally disabled. A retard doesn't care if you call him / her a retard, it's only other people who care. Stop giving power to the word. If you say someone's comment is retarded, well maybe it is. No reason to be offended. This is really about the political correctness issue, in my opinion. Will I use it in a group home of "retarded" people -- no because I know they will be offended. I guess that defeats my own argument, doesn't it? I still think a lot depends on the social context what words we should and should not use.
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In a clinical sense, the term "mental retardation" is still in use. Since you're not a doctor (haha), you don't get to diagnose people. Having special needs does not necessarily mean someone is "retarded". It's not a euphemism, it's an umbrella term that encompasses many different disorders.

Also, you're an idiot.
 
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