On the radar: 2012 Draft Class

[idiot]

Leonard has never been seen as a top-shelf elite prospect (except by MWC fans). <---- I know some will take major exception to that.
Gilchrist was named the best high school player in the nation (at any grade/age) as a freshman (fwiw, Wall was a senior at that same time). Since then, he has maintained that level of play, night in ad night out, for the next four years. Why is he not the #1 pick in the mocks? Most believe he has been so well known/followed, for so long, that other players have simply been the new thing (have to shake up the rankings for hits, ya' know?).

Do I believe Gilchrist is the best NBA prospect in the nation? Probably not, when factoring position, ticket sales (the sexy player), etc. However, as a baller, there's no one in college basketball that is 'clearly' better.

Back to Leonard. Gilchrist is more athletic, WAY better understanding of the game, goes 110% every second, team leader, character to perfection, phenomenal instincts on rebounding, finding the open man, hitting the big shot, and he will be a defensive all-star. In short, yes, he's just WAY better.

I'm sorry, but almost everything you say here about Gilchrist (with the exception of being seen as the leading player in his class for many years and being recruited by Kentucky) sounds very similar to Leonard. You may be right that he turns out better, but the video you gave didn't give me any indication at all that he's better at shooting or ballhandling or passing or in general understanding the game. Perhaps defense. I really didn't like the way his shot looked, to tell the truth. I'm no college recruiter so all I can go on now is the draft sites. Draft Express has him 8th (in the neighborhood of where Leonard was expected to go), and NBA Draft.net (I know, I know ...) has him #15, with an overall player rating of 92 (compared to Leonard's 93). With players like Sullinger, P. Jones, and T. Jones sitting at nearly the same draft position in Draft Express as they were being rated last year (though NBA Draft.net shows them lower, indicating a deeper draft), I just can't see that much difference. (I will say I was a Leonard fan).

Hope you're right and the Jazz get him though, sounds like a good fit.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I will wait until these kids play some College ball to pass any kind of judgment on them. NBA teams tried scouting and drafting HS players and usually failed miserably.

......................but QUINCY MILLER ftw as far as potential goes.

Immensely talented. Let's just hope he doesn't take the same path you're other boy, Scotty Hopson, took. They both kind of take things for granted, like they've already arrived ... rather than working their ***** off to get better. I actually think Quincy getting hurt did him a world of good. Sitting on the sidelines, helpless (hyperbole), and watching everyone else work hard .. I think it sunk in that you're handed nothing .. let's hope so.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I'm sorry, but almost everything you say here about Gilchrist (with the exception of being seen as the leading player in his class for many years and being recruited by Kentucky) sounds very similar to Leonard. You may be right that he turns out better, but the video you gave didn't give me any indication at all that he's better at shooting or ballhandling or passing or in general understanding the game. Perhaps defense. I really didn't like the way his shot looked, to tell the truth. I'm no college recruiter so all I can go on now is the draft sites. Draft Express has him 8th (in the neighborhood of where Leonard was expected to go), and NBA Draft.net (I know, I know ...) has him #15, with an overall player rating of 92 (compared to Leonard's 93). With players like Sullinger, P. Jones, and T. Jones sitting at nearly the same draft position in Draft Express as they were being rated last year (though NBA Draft.net shows them lower, indicating a deeper draft), I just can't see that much difference. (I will say I was a Leonard fan).

Hope you're right and the Jazz get him though, sounds like a good fit.

A little game footage and stats could lead someone to that conclusion. However, having watched Gillie for 4 years already, I'll stand by my assessment (that he's worlds better). Let the games begin!

 

[Stifle Tower]

Go **** yourself.

So you want the Jazz to suck?
As Catchall mentioned, GS had drafted in the 6-7 range for several years until "improving" enough to get the 11 pick. And they took Klay Thompson. I don't like that pick at all. I don't see GS being considerably better this season. In fact, I see a few teams that might jump ahead of them in the standings (Clippers, New Jersey, Sacramento, JAZZ!). I think it's reasonable to assume they'll miss the playoffs and be in that 6-10 range with the likes of Charlotte, Detroit, etc.

I may be wrong about the Jazz, but Utah seemed to come together near the end of the year and I expect a much improved team. Assume Corbin starts Millsap-Jefferson-Hayward-Harris-CJ. That's a decent starting five. Add in Favors, Kanter and Burks off the bench. And perhaps Okur. Even Raja should have a better season. I know the Jazz would have to catch Memphis or New Orleans for the last playoff spot, or perhaps Denver. It won't be easy. But it's certainly not impossible. And if they don't, perhaps Utah finishes near .500 and just misses.

IMO, there's a good chance one or both picks are in the 12-14 range. And an outside chance Utah doesn't get any picks at all. I think KOC may look for a trade at the deadline involving expiring contracts (like CJ or Memo) + one or more picks. Perhaps pick up another wing to add to the Burks/Hayward rotation. The team is young enough. Utah needs some veteran leadership NOT named Bell.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Immensely talented. Let's just hope he doesn't take the same path you're other boy, Scotty Hopson, took. They both kind of take things for granted, like they've already arrived ... rather than working their ***** off to get better. I actually think Quincy getting hurt did him a world of good. Sitting on the sidelines, helpless (hyperbole), and watching everyone else work hard .. I think it sunk in that you're handed nothing .. let's hope so.

You are aware my Scotty Hopson promoting was all sarcastic?

 

[NUMBERICA]

I don't see any significant improvement for the Warriors. If anything, I think they might be worse. I don't know how anyone could think that a guy that has never coached and regularly the dumbest, most arrogant commentator on national broadcasts is going to do better than the guy before him when the pieces are the same.

And just a reminder on what those pieces are:
1) Curry. Their best player if we're talking about winning impact. And he's not very consistent and does not have a good physical profile.
2) Ellis. Puts up a million points and uses a million possessions to get them. Doesn't spread the floor, doesn't look to create for others, can't/won't defend. Owed a lot of money. Poor-man's AI.
3) ... umm... David Lee? I've always thought this dude was overrated, especially when D'Antoni got his greasy hands on him. Can do one thing; PnR. Doesn't defend, rebounds alright. Okay jumper. Luckiest dude in the NBA as far as how he got his contract.
4) ... umm... Dorrell Wright? Had a good year last year, but history tells us that won't last. I like him, though. Spreads the floor nicely, cheap contract, good size. Not going to make a big difference for a team that has no real inside presence and even worse ball-movement.
5) Biedrins. Not good. Can rebound, can defend, but not great at either. Bad at scoring. No moves, can't hit a FT. Owed a lot of money.

Then a bunch of absolute scrubs and/or guys that haven't proven anything. Their two lottery picks in the last two years fall in this category.

No defense, bad offense, organizational turmoil. Yeah, GSW are primed for an explosion. If I'm concerned about anything, it's that the Warriors are going to be so bad the Jazz don't get the pick next year. Ellis, Biedrins, and Lee account for >$30 million over each of the upcoming 3 seasons (>$90 million!!!)!!! That's more than half the cap and 2/3 of the money owed just next year!!! HOLY ****!

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

The only other difference with GS is that they'll have Ekpe Udoh, so their interior defense won't be a total disaster like last year, but they'll do well to win 30 games in all likelihood.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

PKM, where do you live?

 

[NUMBERICA]

No joke, after Curry, the only two other players I'd even ENTERTAIN wanting on the Jazz are Dorell Wright and Charles Jenkins. The rest can **** right off into obscurity.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

I don't see any significant improvement for the Warriors. If anything, I think they might be worse. I don't know how anyone could think that a guy that has never coached and regularly the dumbest, most arrogant commentator on national broadcasts is going to do better than the guy before him when the pieces are the same.

And just a reminder on what those pieces are:
1) Curry. Their best player if we're talking about winning impact. And he's not very consistent and does not have a good physical profile.
2) Ellis. Puts up a million points and uses a million possessions to get them. Doesn't spread the floor, doesn't look to create for others, can't/won't defend. Owed a lot of money. Poor-man's AI.
3) ... umm... David Lee? I've always thought this dude was overrated, especially when D'Antoni got his greasy hands on him. Can do one thing; PnR. Doesn't defend, rebounds alright. Okay jumper. Luckiest dude in the NBA as far as how he got his contract.
4) ... umm... Dorrell Wright? Had a good year last year, but history tells us that won't last. I like him, though. Spreads the floor nicely, cheap contract, good size. Not going to make a big difference for a team that has no real inside presence and even worse ball-movement.
5) Biedrins. Not good. Can rebound, can defend, but not great at either. Bad at scoring. No moves, can't hit a FT. Owed a lot of money.

Then a bunch of absolute scrubs and/or guys that haven't proven anything. Their two lottery picks in the last two years fall in this category.

No defense, bad offense, organizational turmoil. Yeah, GSW are primed for an explosion. If I'm concerned about anything, it's that the Warriors are going to be so bad the Jazz don't get the pick next year. Ellis, Biedrins, and Lee account for >$30 million over each of the upcoming 3 seasons (>$90 million!!!)!!! That's more than half the cap and 2/3 of the money owed just next year!!! HOLY ****!

Lee's the luckiest dude as fare as his contract? C'mon, based on his consistency and what he brings to the table, his contract is much better than that of Lewis or AK. Those scrubs are waaaaaaaay luckier. Hell there's about 20-30 guys who are waaaaaaay luckier imo.

 

[spycam1]

I don't see any significant improvement for the Warriors. If anything, I think they might be worse. I don't know how anyone could think that a guy that has never coached and regularly the dumbest, most arrogant commentator on national broadcasts is going to do better than the guy before him when the pieces are the same.

And just a reminder on what those pieces are:
1) Curry. Their best player if we're talking about winning impact. And he's not very consistent and does not have a good physical profile.
2) Ellis. Puts up a million points and uses a million possessions to get them. Doesn't spread the floor, doesn't look to create for others, can't/won't defend. Owed a lot of money. Poor-man's AI.
3) ... umm... David Lee? I've always thought this dude was overrated, especially when D'Antoni got his greasy hands on him. Can do one thing; PnR. Doesn't defend, rebounds alright. Okay jumper. Luckiest dude in the NBA as far as how he got his contract.
4) ... umm... Dorrell Wright? Had a good year last year, but history tells us that won't last. I like him, though. Spreads the floor nicely, cheap contract, good size. Not going to make a big difference for a team that has no real inside presence and even worse ball-movement.
5) Biedrins. Not good. Can rebound, can defend, but not great at either. Bad at scoring. No moves, can't hit a FT. Owed a lot of money.

Then a bunch of absolute scrubs and/or guys that haven't proven anything. Their two lottery picks in the last two years fall in this category.

No defense, bad offense, organizational turmoil. Yeah, GSW are primed for an explosion. If I'm concerned about anything, it's that the Warriors are going to be so bad the Jazz don't get the pick next year. Curry, Biedrins, and Lee account for >$30 million over each of the upcoming 3 seasons (>$90 million!!!)!!! That's more than half the cap and 2/3 of the money owed just next year!!! HOLY ****!

Agree with everything you said. However, I'm not too worried about them being in the bottom 7. I mean, they had the 11th pick this year, and could they really drop 4 spots with almost the exact same roster? Sure, but I wouldn't count on it. I expect them to be within 2 spots of where they were this past season, in other words, between picks 9 and 13.

Teams that I feel WILL be worse than GS next year: Cleveland, Toronto, Charlotte, Detroit, and Minnesota.

That would leave GS with the 6th pick if these were the only teams worse than them. But Sacramento, Washington, Houston, Indiana, Phoenix, Utah, New Orleans, and Denver all have a legit shot at being worse than them. All we need is for 2 of those 8 teams to have a worse record than GS.

I'm confident the Jazz will have GS's pick in the 2012 draft.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Lee's the luckiest dude as fare as his contract? C'mon, based on his consistency and what he brings to the table, his contract is much better than that of Lewis or AK. Those scrubs are waaaaaaaay luckier. Hell there's about 20-30 guys who are waaaaaaay luckier imo.

I don't know. I used a bit of hyperbole, but I can't think of someone whose entire situation was more based on luck. David Lee is David Lee, and he's been that same player since before D'Antoni got there. But D'Antoni's system gave basically everything inside the arc to Lee to beat opposing centers to the basket on PnR, and he didn't have anyone to compete with on his own team for rebounds, and suddenly was playing A TON of minutes too. He's a decent player that was put in a PERFECT situation leading up to a contract year.

A decent player whose production largely relies more on context than anything else and doesn't stand out in any positive way physically doesn't deserve $80 million. AK and Rashard Lewis could at least do something and tailed off. But David Lee just PnR-ed his way to a contract deserving off a perennial All-star and really did nothing else.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Teams that I feel WILL be worse than GS next year: Cleveland, Toronto, Charlotte, Detroit, and Minnesota.

That would leave GS with the 6th pick if these were the only teams worse than them. But Sacramento, Washington, Houston, Indiana, Phoenix, Utah, New Orleans, and Denver all have a legit shot at being worse than them. All we need is for 2 of those 8 teams to have a worse record than GS.

I'm confident the Jazz will have GS's pick in the 2012 draft.

Last year, Sacramento and Washington both finished 12 games behind the Warriors. That's quite a bit of ground for those teams to make up.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Last year, Sacramento and Washington both finished 12 games behind the Warriors. That's quite a bit of ground for those teams to make up.

Both teams have players that are prospectively MUCH better than anyone on golden state. I could see the Wizards easily outclassing the Warriors this season, with Sac really having to depend on whether Cousins continues to improve, and Jimmer is somewhat servicable as a Starter. Still cant believe they passed up on Knight

 

[Dr. Jones]

PKM, where do you live?

St. George during off-season and Lexington during cbb season.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Both teams have players that are prospectively MUCH better than anyone on golden state. I could see the Wizards easily outclassing the Warriors this season, with Sac really having to depend on whether Cousins continues to improve, and Jimmer is somewhat servicable as a Starter. Still cant believe they passed up on Knight

Good post. I think the Wizards and Kings will both be better this year .. particularly Washington.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Both teams have players that are prospectively MUCH better than anyone on golden state. I could see the Wizards easily outclassing the Warriors this season, with Sac really having to depend on whether Cousins continues to improve, and Jimmer is somewhat servicable as a Starter. Still cant believe they passed up on Knight

Sac traded out of their draft spot before they realized they could have had Knight. Really bad trade. I'll be pretty impressed if Jimmer has the impact that Marcus Thornton had on the Kings last year. I'm not so sure they improve. Their PG will be Jimmer, Tyreke Evans isn't really a team player, Cousins will be good, but I'm not sure it adds up to that many more wins. It won't help if they lose Dalembert to free agency.

Washington will continue to improve with Wall. I like Vesely and Singleton, but I'm not sure whether that nets them a dozen more wins. They need to make a decision on Nick Young, and they otherwise rely on Jordan Crawford. They're not going to get more out of Andray Blatche and Yi Jianlian than they did last year. They've got some out-of-place veterans like Josh Howard and Rashard Lewis. I see them doing 5 - 10 games better, but they don't seem well put together to me.

 

[Park Bites]

That video of Andre drummond holy Hanna that dude is good. I haven't seen the likes of a player like that since alonzo morning played high school.

 

[spycam1]

Last year, Sacramento and Washington both finished 12 games behind the Warriors. That's quite a bit of ground for those teams to make up.

That's why I'm confident the Warriors won't have a top 7 pick.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

If you want to see a truly mediocre NBA roster line by line, check out the Charlotte Bobcats now that they gave up Stephen Jackson and Gerald Wallace. The Bobcats might challenge Toronto for the worst record in the league next year.

Looking at some of these teams, it at least looks like the Jazz have a coherent strategy to bring in players of similar age who complement one another. Some of these teams are a mess.