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Funny thing is that on the jazz roster only 2 players would fit the mold of what im looking for. Danuel House jr and Eric Paschall lol. (young rudy gay fits the mold as well. He is the type of player I like)
House is 6 foot 7 and 220 pounds. Can handle, shoot (45% from the field and 42% from 3), defend, rebound, etc.
Paschall is 6 foot 6 and 255. Can handle, shoot (49% from the field and 37% from 3) defend, rebound, etc.
Young rudy gay: 6 foot 8 and 250 lbs. Can handle, shoot (between 45-50% from the field and about 35% from 3. 16-20 ppg), defend, rebound, etc.

And none of those guys played much for the jazz lol. So what do I know. I think the jazz could and should use more players in that mold but they have been a pretty dang good team using almost zero of those type of guys.

Edit: Juancho is another of those types of guys. 6 foot 9 and can kind of do everything a little bit. Not sure he can handle to ball though. Never watched him play prior to the jazz but liked a lot of what I saw with the jazz. Just checked his stats. He was 51% from the field and 44% from 3!! He might have been the most efficient player on the team. That surprised me a bit. Pretty good rebounder too over his career.
 
fishonjazz said:
Funny thing is that on the jazz roster only 2 players would fit the mold of what im looking for. Danuel House jr and Eric Paschall lol. (young rudy gay fits the mold as well. He is the type of player I like)
House is 6 foot 7 and 220 pounds. Can handle, shoot (45% from the field and 42% from 3), defend, rebound, etc.
Paschall is 6 foot 6 and 255. Can handle, shoot (49% from the field and 37% from 3) defend, rebound, etc.
Young rudy gay: 6 foot 8 and 250 lbs. Can handle, shoot (between 45-50% from the field and about 35% from 3. 16-20 ppg), defend, rebound, etc.

And none of those guys played much for the jazz lol. So what do I know. I think the jazz could and should use more players in that mold but they have been a pretty dang good team using almost zero of those type of guys.

Edit: Juancho is another of those types of guys. 6 foot 9 and can kind of do everything a little bit. Not sure he can handle to ball though. Never watched him play prior to the jazz but liked a lot of what I saw with the jazz. Just checked his stats. He was 51% from the field and 44% from 3!! He might have been the most efficient player on the team. That surprised me a bit. Pretty good rebounder too over his career.
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I wish we could find a way to keep those 3 guys. They will be in demand. Everyone wants that kind of player especially on a favorable contract.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I think Embiid is that good. He's just been banged up pretty severely and has always had questionable teammates.
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Maybe but that’s part of the knock on him. Hakeem also had just a reliable predictable move that was unstoppable and I think that is part of my belief in him.

The sixers should be sued for malpractice for how they’ve built around him and I am generally a fan of him and how he approaches the game.

I just think it’s wild the narrative some are pushing on big guys… like Jokic Embiid and Giannis were the top 3 in mvp this year… and everyone like “BIGS IS DED BOOMER!” Giannis is home because Middleton got hurt. Embiid broke his face and had a torn ligament in his thumb and had a ****** second star. Jokic’s team is like Aaron Godorn, Monte Morris, and a bunch of g league bros.
 
TheGoldStandard said:
Prime Shaq was quick, lean and powerful. He was also fairly fast. Late career/fat Shaq would still be ok, but would give up a lot of open shots on the perimeter.

If you took prime Shaq and put him into today's NBA, no one could stop him or contain him. Very few could do a decent job back when the league was full of good big men.
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A good coach would also let him dribble into post ups and he'd play some additional pick and roll. Maybe my Giannis comp was a little aggressive but allowing him to work his way to the block would have him relying on guards less and the numbers would be enormous.

It is a little sad he didn't ever have Giannis' work ethic... he may have been the most physically gifted athlete ever... size, power, speed, and coordination were just bonkers.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Maybe but that’s part of the knock on him. Hakeem also had just a reliable predictable move that was unstoppable and I think that is part of my belief in him.

The sixers should be sued for malpractice for how they’ve built around him and I am generally a fan of him and how he approaches the game.

I just think it’s wild the narrative some are pushing on big guys… like Jokic Embiid and Giannis were the top 3 in mvp this year… and everyone like “BIGS IS DED BOOMER!” Giannis is home because Middleton got hurt. Embiid broke his face and had a torn ligament in his thumb and had a ****** second star. Jokic’s team is like Aaron Godorn, Monte Morris, and a bunch of g league bros.
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I dont classify giannis with embiid and jokic. He is more of the type of player i like. No real glaring weakness. Jokic is really bad defensively and embiid isnt quick enough/mobile enough. Both great players that you can definitely win with just not in the mold of the players i would be seeking out.
Giannis can do pretty much everything though.


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fishonjazz said:
Nah shaq in todays game would still score, though not efficiently as many of his points would come from shooting 50% from the line. He would get killed on the other end as he woukd suck guarding the perimeter.
We already seem hakeem getting bounced early from the playoffs (embiid). Your other guys do fit the size criteria so well done.

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You wash that Embiid comparison to Hakeem from your damn mouth. Dude was a 5-position defender in an era where it wasn't trendy, the greatest shot blocker ever, and also the most skilled post-player ever.

Embiid is great. Hakeem is without peer. Speaking to the topic, Hakeem would be able to play in your scheme defensively.
 
NUMBERICA said:
You wash that Embiid comparison to Hakeem from your damn mouth. Dude was a 5-position defender in an era where it wasn't trendy, the greatest shot blocker ever, and also the most skilled post-player ever.

Embiid is great. Hakeem is without peer.
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Hakeem is my #1 center of all time.


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fishonjazz said:
FWIW Im not saying guys like jokic and cp3 are worthless or that you cant win championships with them. Not at all.
Just saying that my personal roster construction would not feature guys like that. I would want a roster with guys that have not glaring weakness to their game. I would sacrifice a little bit of elite skillsets for more all around ability. Jokic is freaking amazing. Might be the best offensive player in the league. Any team would be lucky to have him. He isn't the type of player I would be going for though because his defense is too poor. Now you can win a title with jokic if everything else is perfect around him that you can hide or overcome his deficiencies but I would prefer to make a roster full of guys that dont have deficiencies to hide or overcome in the first place.
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And I agree you want wing sized guys all throughout the roster. All of the final 4 this year have built somewhat like you are proposing.

When it comes to stars and superstars though you just take them no matter the size. The wing guys fit any roster and you can play 3-4 of them at a time... with centers you can really only run with one... small guys too. The bigs have an important roll though and if you superstars are wings like Lebron, Tatum/Brown, KD... it makes filling in the other areas a lot more easy and flexible. But if you got Curry, CP3, Jokic etc... you just gotta go figure it out.

With regard to our team... House and Hernangomez are nice to have but you can really only play one or two of those guys with Don/Rudy... you need one more passer creator. The issue is we really need one or two prime joe Ingles types that can go from 3 and D to on ball and are ball movers. That type is so hard to find and that is the type we really don't have the assets to trade for. I would like to experiment with Donovan, Rudy and 3 guys that are similar to House... but you'd likely find it results in more Don pullups or mid range shots than is ideal. Now if you had Don, Prime Joe, House, Juan and Rudy... you'd be in a pretty good spot.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I think Embiid is that good. He's just been banged up pretty severely and has always had questionable teammates.
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1. He is not that healthy. It matters.
2. He does not have the agility of Hakeem nor the strength and athleticism of Shaq
3. Hakeem won a ring with 0 other All-Stars. If he's not the only player to have done that, then he's probably at least the 1st since Bill Russell. That year he also won MVP, DPOY, and Finals MVP (the only player to ever have done that)

Embiid is great but he's more Ewing than Hakeem.
 
LogGrad98 said:
I wish we could find a way to keep those 3 guys. They will be in demand. Everyone wants that kind of player especially on a favorable contract.
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House and Juan will both be minimum guys... we should have no issue keeping them if we don't blow it up. They both were passed around the NBA this year and would have a roll here... I think a minimum here would carry more weight than a minimum elsewhere unless its like LA or GS. I think those markets will have bigger fish to fry so we should be fine.
 
MT Steve said:
Wha?

Jokic is an extremely good defender.
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Agree to disagree. I watch him get switched onto donovan and get cooked. Or get dunked on from the lob to gobert. Seen both things happen too often.


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LoPo said:
If we are talking every center of all time, playing how they played at their peak, and for any era of all time, I think you're right.



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Hakeem would dominate in every era. The dude was too quick for Robinson and strong enough to sweep Shaq in his 30's. He also was probably 6' 9" without shoes so in some ways he was a trend-setter because his skill, length, and agility eclipsed what he was missing in height.
 
NUMBERICA said:
1. He is not that healthy. It matters.
2. He does not have the agility of Hakeem nor the strength and athleticism of Shaq
3. Hakeem won a ring with 0 other All-Stars. If he's not the only player to have done that, then he's probably at least the 1st since Bill Russell. That year he also won MVP, DPOY, and Finals MVP (the only player to ever have done that)

Embiid is great but he's more Ewing than Hakeem.
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He was bonkers... he might be better in this era than he was in his era. Everyone thought he traveled all the time in the 90s... imagine giving that guy a gather step. The roster they built was all smart fits but yeah... most of those guys are just solid starter quality dudes. Such a good passer too... like if Jokic and Rudy had a basketball child.
 
LoPo said:
If we are talking every center of all time, playing how they played at their peak, and for any era of all time, I think you're right.



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Wilt is the tough one to compare. His stats are just so insane that i cant trust em lol


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fishonjazz said:
Agree to disagree. I watch him get switched onto donovan and get cooked. Or get dunked on from the lob to gobert. Seen both things happen too often.


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He's good at certain things and is exposed in certain matchups that don't lineup with his strengths. I think he is a good but not great defender (the analytics are a little bonkers for him). He's not like Al Jefferson though... which is what some seem to think.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
He was bonkers... he might be better in this era than he was in his era. Everyone thought he traveled all the time in the 90s... imagine giving that guy a gather step. The roster they built was all smart fits but yeah... most of those guys are just solid starter quality dudes. Such a good passer too... like if Jokic and Rudy had a basketball child.
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On the passing: almost. Was great at kickouts but not great hitting cutters from the high or low block.

But yeah. Also, Hakeem (or Shaq) against a switching defense? Lol, good luck with that.
 
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