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Roe v. Wade is going down

str8line said:
Justice Breyer said the court has become activist politicians, not justices.
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They are. They're legislating that which Republicans don't have the votes for. Part of the genius is that they're shielded from being held to account. If Republicans proposed a ban on abortion, they'd face consequences electorally. But now that the Supreme Court did their dirty work for them, how can voters hold Republican justices accountable?

This impacts more than just abortion, but anything related to privacy. From contraception to gay marriage.

What's really sad to me is how you dig yourself out of this? Even if the filibuster were blown and abortion, gay marriage, voting rights, gun control (take your pick of any topic) codified, this activist Supreme Court (majority w/justices nominated by presidents who have lost the pop vote) could just blow up the legislation.

So how do you fix this? Really, the only option Americans have is to expand the court, create term limits on the justices, and reform how cases are argued. What would be wrong with expanding the court to 15 or 21 justices with 10 year terms and for a random selection of 11 out of 15 or 21 set to hear arguments? Seriously, what would be wrong with this? Someone tell me since I see nothing wrong with this other than partisan hacks wouldn't get their way. Wouldn't we see a better and fairer court? Instead, as it stands right now, we know how every major issue is going to be decided and how. Seriously, think about it. Whether we're talking about workers' rights, gun rights, health care, environment, gay rights, etc we all know that the conservative majority will win 6-3 or 5-4. So why even take time to bring cases up anymore tbh until the Judicial Branch is reformed?
 
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At least Republicans should be at peace now, right? I mean, for years now they've been "angry" over "losing the country" and have everyday screamed about needing to, "take the country back."

Well... In the last 10 years...
  • They've gutted voting rights
  • Gutted key provisions in the ACA
  • Passed tax cuts for the rich
  • Got 3 Supreme Court justices
  • Got us out of the Paris climate agreement and the Iranian nuclear deal
  • Beat Hillary
  • Pardoned war criminals
  • Put brown kids in cages
  • Have bent all major media outlets to frame every major story through a right wing lens (we need both sides to a story both sides since telling the facts just isn't good enough)
  • Are probably going to win the 2022 midterms only 2 years after Jan 6 and their attempt to overturn the election
  • Overturned Miranda and abortion
  • Soon will overturn gay marriage

So they should be happy, right? They're winning, right? So I'm sure this will be reflected in the tone of every major right wing host, right? I mean, they've "taken the country back" haven't' they?
 
The Thriller said:
So how do you fix this?
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The same way it happened. The current justices will die out. Replace them with ones who see the law differently. Expanding the court doesn't fix any of this, it just slows down the transitions.

Meanwhile, tens of thousands of people will suffer. We can't avoid it. The callousness of the Republicans will be exposed. Voters may or may not care.
 
The Thriller said:
They are. They're legislating that which Republicans don't have the votes for. Part of the genius is that they're shielded from being held to account. If Republicans proposed a ban on abortion, they'd face consequences electorally. But now that the Supreme Court did their dirty work for them, how can voters hold Republican justices accountable?
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I do not understand how you function.

1) The courts didn't ban abortion. They said abortion isn't protected by the structures of the republic and returned it to the purview of the democratic structures of our government.

2) If abortion is to be banned, then it will need to be proposed and legislated by someone. Those people are likely to be Republicans.

3) Those proposing and legislating any ban on abortion can be held accountable via democracy because they are in the democratically elected part of the government. That the people can electorally hold to account those who would ban abortion is thanks entirely to this decision.

You are 180 degrees backwards on all of how our government functions and YOU TEACH YOUR MISINFORMATION IN SCHOOLS!!!!!
 
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The Thriller said:
I'd be shocked if gay marriage wasn't returned to the states in the next 2 years. Which would mean, red states would ban it while blue states wouldn't.
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That would violate the full faith and credit clause. Red states could ban the ceremonies and refuse to recognize some of the privileges, but couldn't make the marriages themselves illegal.
 
Al-O-Meter said:
3) Those proposing and legislating any ban on abortion can be held accountable via democracy because they are in the democratically elected part of the government. That the people can electorally hold to account those who would ban abortion is thanks entirely to this decision.
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You must be confused. We're a republic, not a democracy. Republics don't hold individual freedoms granted by the Constitution to a popular vote.
 
One Brow said:
The same way it happened. The current justices will die out. Replace them with ones who see the law differently. Expanding the court doesn't fix any of this, it just slows down the transitions.

Meanwhile, tens of thousands of people will suffer. We can't avoid it. The callousness of the Republicans will be exposed. Voters may or may not care.
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Sure, that's always an option. But I'm looking for ways to fix this, so we don't have to toggle between generations of injustice and suffering because a handful of Republican presidents won the electoral college and a Senate majority leaders was unscrupulous enough to prevent the opening of one justice for a year. So I'd like to actually solve this problem by expanding the court, setting term limits, and change how cases are heard than kick the ball down the court.

What would be wrong with expanding the court to 15 or 21 justices, creating term limits (maybe 10 years? or 15? I'm not set on any particular number), and drawing names out of a hat (or doing some random 9 or 11 selection from the pool of justices)? What would be wrong with this? I think it solves a lot of problems and it diminishes that incentive that Republicans currently enjoy via legislating through the Judicial Branch.

As far as winning back the courts, that's one hell of an uphill battle. As you stated, Voters may not care. Also, the Federalist Society is so well funded and organized. The left doesn't have anything close to that. Then, there are the built-in advantages of the EC and Senate that Republicans currently enjoy.
 
One Brow said:
That would violate the full faith and credit clause. Red states could ban the ceremonies and refuse to recognize some of the privileges, but couldn't make the marriages themselves illegal.
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Isn't that the entire point of Obergefell? The rights and privileges of straight marriage must be recognized by all 50 states to those of same-sex marriage? If this is returned to the states then wouldn't red states move to what they were doing prior to the 2015 ruling? I could be mistaken here but we almost had several types of civil unions and marriages going on prior to the 2015 ruling.
 
Rubashov said:
Reproductive rights are just another way for men to exert power and control over women. If you own nothing in life you own your own body and what goes in and out of it. I suppose if women wanted that sort of freedom they should have been born as men yeah? There is nothing to celebrate in this, it is a defeat for men and women all over your country.
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I think the debate for most non-rabid extremists begins with the question of whether the baby owns its body or not? When do rights begin for the infant? That is the crux of it. Some believe it doesn't carry any human rights until it is actually born. Others believe it has rights as soon as it is deemed to be "alive", but then that threshold is endlessly debated as well. But generally yes, this will be used as a way to continue exercising control on women by men. Of that there is no doubt.
 
Just curious, does anyone know of a similarly industrialized nation that had abortion as legalized as we did and has hit the reverse button? Like does one such country exist? Is France, Germany, or the UK looking at repealing abortion rights?
 
One Brow said:
We're a republic, not a democracy. Republics don't hold individual freedoms granted by the Constitution to a popular vote.
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Correct and thank you for summing up the decision today. There is no individual freedom to abortion granted by the Constitution and so it is subject to popular vote.
 
The Thriller said:
Interesting


View: https://twitter.com/clintsmithiii/status/1540368762095935490?s=21&t=Hu9WOuB_Df6Q5HcfDc2S7Q
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I highly doubt anyone is going to be investigated for having a miscarriage. I think the anti-abortionists are happy enough to make it illegal so that a woman can't easily walk into a clinic and have an abortion. There were home abortions and black market abortions before it was legalized. So like drugs and prostitution it'll exist, it just won't be regulated or nearly as safe.
 
Gameface said:
I highly doubt anyone is going to be investigated for having a miscarriage. I think the anti-abortionists are happy enough to make it illegal so that a woman can't easily walk into a clinic and have an abortion. There were home abortions and black market abortions before it was legalized. So like drugs and prostitution it'll exist, it just won't be regulated or nearly as safe.
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Oh man, I couldn't disagree more with this. Since when have RW conservatives/Trumpers been satisfied with ANYTHING? The last decade has proven that these folks can get exactly what they want and still be angrier than ever and demand more.
 
The Thriller said:
Oh man, I couldn't disagree more with this. Since when have RW conservatives/Trumpers been satisfied with ANYTHING? The last decade has proven that these folks can get exactly what they want and still be angrier than ever and demand more.
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I think you're being alarmist and taking focus away from the real issues here. What would an investigation into a possible miscarriage/abortion look like? Did that exist before? Is anyone talking about doing that. Would they force the woman to get a medical examination to maybe prove that it was an abortion? Are states abortion restrictions worded in such a way as to establish anything like this?
 
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