Dame Time

[Release the Kraken]

How do you pivot with 1 guy taking 64m of your cap space?

I had hoped that this trade idea was just a Jazzfanz concoction and then I saw a trade scenario involving Sexton, THT, Olynyk and multiple firsts for Lillard on NBA TV today. The NBA TV team felt that we could offer the most attractive trade package. Where is this coming from? I’m hoping it’s just spurred by the fact that he played his college ball here. We’ve got a great core and a great cap space situation currently and I’d much rather develop from within with role players ala Denver.

 

[Elizah Huge]

I had hoped that this trade idea was just a Jazzfanz concoction and then I saw a trade scenario involving Sexton, THT, Olynyk and multiple firsts for Lillard on NBA TV today. The team felt that we could offer the most attractive trade package. Where is this coming from? I’m hoping it’s just spurred by the fact that he played his college ball here. We’ve got a great core and a great cap space situation currently and I’d much rather develop from within with role players ala Denver.

Denver has the best player in the league man. We need a top-10 player like Dame to compete at the highest levels.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I strongly disagree. Defensively there isn't a comparison between the 2 and put prime Stockton in this era where he is encouraged to look for his shot more and I think he is probably a 25 point a game scorer while still giving you 12 assists and 2.5 steals on insane shooting percentages

Yeah, I doubt that.

 

[Release the Kraken]

Denver has the best player in the league man. We need a top-10 player like Dame to compete at the highest levels.

Do you happen to remember where that best player in the league was drafted? And how many years it took? This is a bad play, we should stay the course!

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Brother just stop. Who is advocating for giving up half our assets (not me this whole time and not most people on this forum)? The Miami offer is currently two first, Herro, and one of Jovic/Jaquez.

The Jazz can match that in their sleep and still have over 3/4ths of their draft/rookie contract assets left. If it becomes a bidding war, you back out. No one is saying Utah should push all in for Dame.

I think one thing to consider is this isn’t an eBay auction where if they bid $100 we will win the bid by going to $101. We will have to go to clearly above his preferred destination. Simply being slightly better won’t close the deal.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I think one thing to consider is this isn’t an eBay auction where if they bid $100 we will win the bid by going to $101. We will have to go to clearly above his preferred destination. Simply being slightly better won’t close the deal.

Look, I have no idea what it would take, I just know what I've seen as the reported Miami deal. Maybe Dame changes his mind if Utah can talk to him and sell the idea, I have no idea. Also have no idea if Portland will actually honor him to Miami.

All I know if the deal is just two first (or like two and a weaker first like the LA, or one of our own protected) and Sensabaugh and w/e bench players we need for filler, I'm in.

 

[jumpin bean]

if we can grab Lillard, for 3 1st rounders and a few role players I say hell yes do it ,and Im A fan of Sexton and THT

 

[Elizah Huge]

I think one thing to consider is this isn’t an eBay auction where if they bid $100 we will win the bid by going to $101. We will have to go to clearly above his preferred destination. Simply being slightly better won’t close the deal.

An extra first and more cap space is clearly above in my eyes.

 

[Eddie Zero]

if we can grab Lillard, for 3 1st rounders and a few role players I say hell yes do it ,and Im A fan of Sexton and THT

2 things that the supporters of going after Dame are ignoring
1 he won't want to be here if we have to trade a lot of rotation level players or LM. Which would have to happen.
2 even after the trade request and that awful contract for his age, he is still going to cost more than 3 late firsts.

 

[jumpin bean]

2 things that the supporters of going after Dame are ignoring
1 he won't want to be here if we have to trade a lot of rotation level players or LM. Which would have to happen.
2 even after the trade request and that awful contract for his age, he is still going to cost more than 3 late first

Danny has got this, we have a talented young team, we aint giving them the treasure box, just a few jewels or no deal, Utah has to try and get a Superstar every time there is a possibility

 

[sip]

Everyone talks about “the timeline”. I actually think Dame is right for our timeline. It sounds awesome to have a ton of young players all grow together and peak at similar-ish times….but the truth is that comes with them all getting paid a ton at the same time. You can’t afford everyone once the rookie deals are over. What you can afford is having multiple max players with players still on their rookie deals.

I feel as though the Jazz have a window here with Kessler having 3 years left on his rookie deal, kind of similar to when they had Mitchell on a rookie deal. You want to stack the deck when you have good players on cheap contracts and not after they get giant pay bumps.

If Dame does not want to play here that cannot be fixed. But if he’s open to it, we’ve got to be open to it. He was playing at an MVP level last season. I’d be shocked if he’s not at an all star level for the next 3+ years.

The problem is that we have unproven players on rookie deals. We all have quite a bit of confidence in Kessler but he is still pretty unproven and Ochai even more so. Every year we see promising guys that had solid rookie years stagnate or even regress in their second year. Then of course we are talking about 3 19yr old rookies that I really like but have proven nothing. To me it is extremely foolish to go all in on a 33yr old Lillard when we know so little about our current group of players. Hell even with Lauri we only have one year of data and most of this offseason he is spending in the military rather than working on his game. Then you have Collins who we got for free because he has regressed 3 years in a row. We all hope in a new environment he can snap out of it but as of now we have no clue. I think it makes way more sense to let this current core group play out this year so that we have a much clearer picture of what kind of talent we have. At that point if we see the growth that we are hoping for then look to make that big move because our guys should have more trade value and we are really primed to be a contender if we add the right piece. I'm sure some of you will say that a star may not be available at that point in time but I highly doubt that is the case. Every year we are seeing stars getting moved and we have the ammo to outbid almost every team if the right guy becomes available.

 

[framer]

It's a small thread. All I'm saying is that this "Lillard is a superstar who hasn't had much help in his career" narrative is somewhat recent. For most of his career, he was seen as a flawed star, and some debated whether he's even the best player on the team.

I think the narrative is that it is madness to make Dame's second star an undersized scorer who cannot play defense. And yet, they kept on doing it. . . Also, Nurkic bites.

 

[rocfan1]

And both Lauri/Dame are better than Murray.... dame I'll concede, Lauri NO

And John Collins is more talented than either Gordon or Porter Jr.... Collins is not more talented then Porter Jr. lol

And Kessler has 1st team defense potential.

And Keyonte/Hendricks are promising young players.

And Jordan Clarkson is a 6th man of the year candidate.

And Ochai is burgeoning shooter.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I mean Lauri is a near 7' who just averaged 26 ppg and made the ASG. Murray still hasnt been an All-Star.

Ranking Murray in general is very tough because I think everyone recognizes he is as good as he is because of Jokic, but he also is probably held back by Jokic in the raw numbers department. So it's kind of a weird dynamic, but if I was starting a team, I'd take Lauri over Murray 10/10 times.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Look, I have no idea what it would take, I just know what I've seen as the reported Miami deal. Maybe Dame changes his mind if Utah can talk to him and sell the idea, I have no idea. Also have no idea if Portland will actually honor him to Miami.

All I know if the deal is just two first (or like two and a weaker first like the LA, or one of our own protected) and Sensabaugh and w/e bench players we need for filler, I'm in.

I was just making sure to throw that out there. The Miami offer will have to be beat by a fair margin to be the winning bid.

Herro, 2 picks, 2 swaps (not a ton of value), Jacquez, Lowry for Dame and Nurkic. Lets say Portland routes Jacquez and Herro to Brooklyn for Ben Simmons and just one suns pick.

To me it means we'd have to put Sexton, KO, THT, 3 firsts for Dame just to "match"... then does Hendricks or another first close it. To me that is likely the offer that is the winning bid that Portland says "eff it... we will piss Dame off".

If Herro just can't be recycled for a pick even if they take back ****** salary... then we might get away with the Sexton/KO/THT plus 3 firsts... IDK its a significant cost... so I'm only doing it if he begrudgingly decides its fine.

 

[TheGoldStandard]

I think one thing to consider is this isn’t an eBay auction where if they bid $100 we will win the bid by going to $101. We will have to go to clearly above his preferred destination. Simply being slightly better won’t close the deal.

Disagree. PDX will take the best deal, regardless of where it puts Dame.

 

[framer]

I think one thing to consider is this isn’t an eBay auction where if they bid $100 we will win the bid by going to $101. We will have to go to clearly above his preferred destination. Simply being slightly better won’t close the deal.

Why not? This is dumb. He isn't a free agent. Do you think Donovan was really all that excited to go to Cleveland? At the time the trade was made, many thought that the value wasn't actually better than the New York deal. The Jazz took the deal that had the better value for them. The Blazers don't owe it to Miami to take Duncan Robinson or some stupid ** scenario where they take multiple years of Ben Simmons. They need to do what is best for them in their situation. Jazz can provide that without having to grossly overpay Miami's offer, which is 2 firsts (5 and 7 years into the future), Robinson and Herro (maybe turned into Simmons and a pick). Jazz can beat that offer pretty easily and still have plenty of assets.

 

[Eddie Zero]

Danny has got this, we have a talented young team, we aint giving them the treasure box, just a few jewels or no deal, Utah has to try and get a Superstar every time there is a possibility

Fair enough, when one becomes available for less than a Kings ransom let Danny know would you smh. Dame is not a superstar, he has done nothing but accumulate regular season awards and proven he lacks what it takes as a first option to win it all.
He has had his moments that make people think is. He has had plenty of decent line ups around him and opportunity. Problem maybe is we are to quick to label someone superstar? He has proven to me he is Robin on a contender, and no way he is worth that deal unless we are trading for Kawhi and the latter of whom still plays basketball more than never

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Disagree. PDX will take the best deal, regardless of where it puts Dame.

Dame's feelings will be considered... either by the acquirer in how much they offer or by Portland in how much they will accept. It won't be this cold calculated deal where they can get an extra nickel some place and eff how he feels about it.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Why not? This is dumb. He isn't a free agent.

For a bunch of reasons. He's the best player they have had since Drexler? He means a lot to the community and they won't want him completely pissed. Not to mention they all likely had a wink and a nod agreement when he signed that if he needed out they would figure things out.

Do you think Donovan was really all that excited to go to Cleveland? At the time the trade was made, many thought that the value wasn't actually better than the New York deal.

I mean supposedly he sprinted around a golf course yelling and shouting and ****. He gave us 5 years... Dame gave Porty 10.

The Jazz took the deal that had the better value for them. The Blazers don't owe it to Miami to take Duncan Robinson or some stupid ** scenario where they take multiple years of Ben Simmons. They need to do what is best for them in their situation. Jazz can provide that without having to grossly overpay Miami's offer, which is 2 firsts (5 and 7 years into the future), Robinson and Herro (maybe turned into Simmons and a pick). Jazz can beat that offer pretty easily and still have plenty of assets.

I'm simply saying if the offers are close that Miami will get the benefit of the doubt. We have to clearly beat their offer. If we do then we will get him as the feelings are a secondary concern if a team is willing to take a guy who may be disgruntled on day 1. Just simply stating we will not get him as cheap as Miami would.