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seattlejazzfan said:
below average TS% and doesn't defend at all. we want to stay far away from Herro.
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Better on most defensive metrics than Clarkson or Sexton. Doesnt get to the FT line which hurts TS%. If you really want to argue that averaging 38% from 3 on 8 per game isnt volume making....
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Again, he is far far better than Sexton and Clarkson. Sexton and Clarkson aren't a positive player combination to have on your roster and they combined cost more (or near the exact same) per year than Herro does.
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He could be better than JC... but it isn't fair to say he is far far better than JC is now. I get that JC and Sexton aren't a good pairing... but neither are Herro and JC or Herro and Sexton or imagine all three.

He's young doe... so he might have a jump in him. If we are getting him it is with the idea that maybe he has his version of the Lauri glow up... but no damn way am I giving up more than 1 first for that gamble... and even at 1 frp I am skeptical.
 
Thee Idiotic Minivan K said:
Oh lord have mercy!! Trading for Herro would be a huge mistake!!! I still don’t understand the Collins trade and this would be even more idiotic. Why can’t the jazz just build slow for once? We are just making the same mistakes. Grabbing high usage bucket getters to sacrifice defense. I wasn’t a fan of the Hendricks pick or any of the picks last draft, but at least with Hendricks we were adding defense, but then we add Collins to keep Hendricks on the bench and now we are rumored to want Herro to add to Clarkson and blocking Agbaji who has potential as a really good 3&D. Sometimes when thinking about this rebuild I get the 3 blind mice song running in my head. This damn org has 3 blind mice in charge it feels like some times.
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Let Ainge cook. He’s upgrading assets. Higher value assets are better than lower value assets. This isn’t remotely similar to a championship level team. Many steps to go. Ainge was rated the best GM in the league by his peers. He’s been near perfect on the rebuild so far. We haven’t seen two draft picks play and the third was the best player in summer league. Let the man cook.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Imo there is nothing dumber than building slow right now. If you can get Herro he's the perfect timeline fit. He's got 4 years left on his deal so you can help maximize the current win-ability of the team. After those 4 years you can transition the team to Keyonte if he's truly worthy and trade off Herro and get value out of him.

Also if Hendricks is any good, the Jazz will have to decide between keeping him or Keyonte after those 4 years (and possibly add Sensabaugh to that). We will have too much money in Walker and Lauri to afford to max both those rookies.

Imo just get as many good players as possible. Getting these long term contracts that will be cheaper as time goes on gives you a lot of flexibility while winning now. There's no reason to not maximize winning now (within reason). We can't be bad enough to truly change the franchise future with a guaranteed star talent top pick.
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Agree with this. The only way to go to "slow build" mode right now would be to trade Lauri. Lingering around 10-14 draft pick range is not a good slow build strategy. We would need to be a lot worse than we actually are.

Plus, most of our draft pick start capitalizing after 2026, so even if we decided to go for the slow build we should probably pull the trigger two or three years from now and build value/assets up before that. Before that we have only 3 FRPs (0 in 2024, 2 in 2025 and 1 with double swap rights in 2026).
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Imo there is nothing dumber than building slow right now. If you can get Herro he's the perfect timeline fit. He's got 4 years left on his deal so you can help maximize the current win-ability of the team. After those 4 years you can transition the team to Keyonte if he's truly worthy and trade off Herro and get value out of him.

Also if Hendricks is any good, the Jazz will have to decide between keeping him or Keyonte after those 4 years (and possibly add Sensabaugh to that). We will have too much money in Walker and Lauri to afford to max both those rookies.

Imo just get as many good players as possible. Getting these long term contracts that will be cheaper as time goes on gives you a lot of flexibility while winning now. There's no reason to not maximize winning now (within reason). We can't be bad enough to truly change the franchise future with a guaranteed star talent top pick.
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Amen. A slow rebuild is ridiculous based upon where were are currently at with Lauri and because our "rebuild" was 100% self inflicted. I am not sure what Herro is worth but sitting on assets without aggressively trying to get real talent makes no sense.
 
gomretat said:
Amen. A slow rebuild is ridiculous based upon where were are currently at with Lauri and because our "rebuild" was 100% self inflicted. I am not sure what Herro is worth but sitting on assets without aggressively trying to get real talent makes no sense.
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Unless the assets we are sitting on are better than the real talent. If that is the case then I would rather keep our assets.
 
HermanG said:
Agree with this. The only way to go to "slow build" mode right now would be to trade Lauri. Lingering around 10-14 draft pick range is not a good slow build strategy. We would need to be a lot worse than we actually are.

Plus, most of our draft pick start capitalizing after 2026, so even if we decided to go for the slow build we should probably pull the trigger two or three years from now and build value/assets up before that. Before that we have only 3 FRPs (0 in 2024, 2 in 2025 and 1 with double swap rights in 2026).
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Yes exactly, that's the treadmill setup. No thank you.
 
Keefe said:
You know he was going to have a huge playoff run based on what exactly?
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Yeah, you could also argue that Miami had a great postseason this year because Herro didn’t play. No one needed to cover for his poor defense. During the 2022 playoffs, Miami’s defensive rating decreased by 16.4 points when Herro was on the floor.
 
Flc said:
Let Ainge cook. He’s upgrading assets. Higher value assets are better than lower value assets. This isn’t remotely similar to a championship level team. Many steps to go. Ainge was rated the best GM in the league by his peers. He’s been near perfect on the rebuild so far. We haven’t seen two draft picks play and the third was the best player in summer league. Let the man cook.
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Agreed.
underdog said:
Yeah, you could also argue that Miami had a great postseason this year because Herro didn’t play. No one needed to cover for his poor defense. During the 2022 playoffs, Miami’s defensive rating decreased by 16.4 points when Herro was on the floor.
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That's also my concern about Herro. He also has that tiny wingspan so he's never going to be a great defender. For a guard he basically has zero playmaking ability as Heat fans didn't even want him bringing the ball up the court. The kid can definitely shoot the rock but that is also the #1 skill of JC, George and Ochai but all 3 of them can potentially offer secondary skills such as playmaking or defense. Not to mention shooting is probably the #1 skill of our other draft picks Hendricks and Sensabaugh. Personally I'd rather give the minutes to the kids already on the roster. Herro to me is a top tier 6th man but so are JC and Sexton on much cheaper deals.

Now if Ainge believes Herro will be an upgraded asset over the guys already on the roster then by all means go get him if the price is right ofc. After listening to Woj it sounds like some real heavyweights could be potentially traded in the next year (Embiid, Giannis, Doncic, Mitchell(lol), Towns, Siakam types). I think Ainge is going to keep upgrading the assets until he can eventually make a huge splash.
 
whatthe said:
Opportunistic was and is the philosophy
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Yep, we are looking at a situatino for Portland where they really need to trade Dame. They dont really want Herro, so this might be the cheapest you can get Herro at any point in his career, plus he's locked up for 4 years which makes team building/planning much easier.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Better on most defensive metrics than Clarkson or Sexton. Doesnt get to the FT line which hurts TS%. If you really want to argue that averaging 38% from 3 on 8 per game isnt volume making....
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yes, that is part of the reason his TS% is as low as it is. the fact he doesn't get to the line is a problem and one reason he's on the inefficient side as scorer.
 
seattlejazzfan said:
yes, that is part of the reason his TS% is as low as it is. the fact he doesn't get to the line is a problem and one reason he's on the inefficient side as scorer.
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Yeah, it's not the best. It's the weak part of his offensive game currently, but he's such a crafty shooter I can see it improving to a slightly better level
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Yeah, it's not the best. It's the weak part of his offensive game currently, but he's such a crafty shooter I can see it improving to a slightly better level
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Although if seattle was the one arguing in favor of herro and you were arguing against then you wouldn't be able to see it improving at all lol.
 
We're at risk of over-valuing and foolishly hoarding all of our assets. I don't love Herro, but if there's an opportunity to turn 1 pick or 1 good pick and 1 lower quality pick plus a marginal player into Tyler Herro, we should definitely consider it. This is upgrading the asset base, not "wasting" our assets. It puts us in a much better position to go after a Big Fish player, which is really one of they key steps to going after a championship.
 
I'm not saying we should or shouldn't hoard picks right now. But if you want to talk about asset management and prepping ourselves for the BIG FISH!!! the best way to do that is to ensure our young players can get burn and increase their perceived value around the league. When teams trade a superstar they are rarely interested in players that are good now on big contracts... they are rebuilding... picks and good young players is the currency required. If your young guys are all in the G League it will put some limits on their value.

So if we do a Herro deal... hopefully it clears up some playing time somehow. If it costs more than one pick (and Sexton +) I have a hard time seeing us get excess value if we trade Herro later. So if we trade for him it is with the idea he is part of the present and future imo.
 
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