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Israel-Hamas War

Here's another example of double standards that's mentioned in this thread: The Law of Return.

Israel's Law of Return provides for automatic citizenship for anyone who has at least on Jewish grandparent. They don't have to be legally Jewish, just have one grandparent who is/was.

It's a fairly simple process. I could move to Israel and be a citizen before this year is over. Now, this is often held up as some kind of an unfair thing unique to Israel and sure, if you're American, this sounds unusual. Quite a few European countries have laws like this. Croatia, Greece, Lithuania, Turkey, Poland, and a few others allow anyone who is ethnically "theirs" to claim citizenship. This isn't just children of immigrants, this includes ethnic minorities in other countries that have never lived on the territory of that country. Greeks living in Caucasus or Central Asia are eligible for citizenship. Most of Bosnia's 400 thousand ethnic Croats have obtained Croatian citizenship at some point, despite having lived in Bosnia for centuries.

Now, people will point out that only Jews are eligible for this in Israel and Arabs are not. Sure. Again, not an unusual thing. Greece has "exchanged" about a million Muslims of all manner of languages with Turkey over the past 150 years. Turkey has done likewise with its Greek Orthodox population. Neither of those groups can claim citizenship. I don't have to tell you that descendants of ethnic Armenians driven out from Turkey can't claim citizenship while ethnic Turks from Georgia or Bulgaria can.

My wife's grandmother is still alive and her father was born about 50km outside of Warsaw. He was born in what was then Russian Empire, but was automatically made a Polish citizen when the Polish republic was proclaimed in 1918. He moved to Canada 5 years later, having never given up his Polish citizenship. His daughter would normally be able to claim Polish citizenship, which is available to anyone with a Polish-born grandparent, except for one crucial thing. Ethnic Germans are specifically excluded from this. It doesn't matter that my wife's grandfather, unfortunately named Adolph as well, never fought in the German army in either world war or that he left Europe long before Nazis even appeared on the scene. My wife's grandmother and mother are not able to claim Polish citizenship solely and only because of their ethnicity.
 
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Hearsky said:

Worth your 12 minutes
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Thanks for posting! Nothing but respect for Dr Gabor Mate who like Chomsky (also Jewish) is unafraid to expose the truth about Israel and the oppression of its indigenous and displaced Palestinians. When people behave like rabid animals as the Hamas terrorists did in their raid Saturday it’s because of seething hatred for their oppressors. Does that justify their actions? Of course not, but a different tack must be taken to stop the cycle of abuse. Netanyahu is a ruthless and despicable despot that must be replaced.

It’s colonialism pure and simple but instead of reparations made for the indigenous as in South Africa, the US and New Zealand, “Nakba” has not only displaced them (a people without a Country) but rendered them to second class status.

Dr Mate said he cried every day when he visited Gaza. I cry every day I turn on the TV as this citizen population, the ones that survive, are now homeless with no place to turn. And 150 or so Israeli hostages are probably also feeling the brunt of this horrific Israeli response. If there is only ever retaliation and abuse and never some kind of actual conciliation, this conflict, this cauldron of hatred and pain could be the end of us all. Iran undoubtedly has their nukes by now as do the Saudis and of course Israel. A festering wound like this won’t heal itself.
 
Release the Kraken said:
Thanks for posting! Nothing but respect for Dr Gabor Mate who like Chomsky (also Jewish) is unafraid to expose the truth about Israel and the oppression of its indigenous and displaced Palestinians. When people behave like rabid animals as the Hamas terrorists did in their raid Saturday it’s because of seething hatred for their oppressors. Does that justify their actions? Of course not, but a different tack must be taken to stop the cycle of abuse. Netanyahu is a ruthless and despicable despot that must be replaced.

It’s colonialism pure and simple but instead of reparations made for the indigenous as in South Africa, the US and New Zealand, “Nakba” has not only displaced them (a people without a Country) but rendered them to second class status.

Dr Mate said he cried every day when he visited Gaza. I cry every day I turn on the TV as this citizen population, the ones that survive, are now homeless with no place to turn. And 150 or so Israeli hostages are probably also feeling the brunt of this horrific Israeli response. If there is only ever retaliation and abuse and never some kind of actual conciliation, this conflict, this cauldron of hatred and pain could be the end of us all. Iran undoubtedly has their nukes by now as do the Saudis and of course Israel. A festering wound like this won’t heal itself.
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Good post bro. Thanks for that


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There is a difference between those Americans focused on Trump as someone who they believe represents a grave danger to American democracy, and those who see Trump as the leader of a movement they very much approve of. For the latter Americans, this focus on Trump has taken on the characteristics of a cult of personality. Not for all, but for many, and via various reasons, reasons that should be analyzed, since these are the folks disaffected within 21st century American society and culture.

When defining a cult, one should rather easily understand, that if one despises the leader of the cult of personality, one is not oneself a member of that cult. Calling frequent attention to the dangers represented by Trump is not cultish behavior. And those Americans calling attention to how abnormal Trump is, in relation to our higher angels, will be full throated urgent at times. Not because they are in a cult, but because they are aware enough to recognize how very serious the danger is. To say they are in a Trump cult would be like saying people who deprogram people who have been in a cult are also in a cult. It’s an absurd argument, and the poster making that argument knows all this full well.

I mean, when you see danger, you sound out the alarm. That, in the case of Trump, is a very good thing, not something to accuse of cultish behavior when it occurs. If that’s a cult, we need more of it. A lot more of it in November, 2024!

The poster insisting that Trump opponents are also in a cult understands this difference. But, due to his troll instincts, of course he is going to claim Trump opponents are in a cult. In addition to the world revolving around him, this poster also likes to go up people’s butts sideways. And that’s the only reason he’s taking these claims about cult definitions. He knows himself that he’s full of s***. He knows this as well as all of us knows this.
 
One Brow said:
I think Durham, from what I have read of it, produced a fair report. He found almost no wrong-doing (a couple of paperwork errors), and said the investigation should have been preliminary rather than full. That some people took this as exoneration is not the fault of the Durham report.
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Yes, my reply was influenced by some anger on my part, which can lead to exaggeration…
 
SteakNEggs said:
Says the people making this terrorist attack about Trump. Sadly you Trumpers will never understand your own blatant hypocrisy. Everything to you all is about Trump. None of this happened under his watch but you still find time to try to turn attention towards him just because you starve for his presence. IMO he is the biggest deity in history to Democrats outside of Jesus.
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If you’re talking about someone making the Israel-Hamas war about Trump, you have to start with Trump. It’s not the fault of those of us who recognize the danger the man represents to our democracy. I’m sure as someone who likes to make everything about yourself as victim, which you do in a significant number of your postings, you can recognize somebody like Trump doing the very same thing. I think we must all know by now that he can’t help himself:

www.huffpost.com

Wall Street Journal Hits Trump For Making Israel-Hamas War 'About Himself'

The conservative newspaper took aim at Trump after he criticized Israel's leader and praised Hezbollah during a crisis in the Middle East.
www.huffpost.com www.huffpost.com

nymag.com

Trump Manages to Make Israel Attack All About Him

He blamed the attack on the “rigged” 2020 election, aired his personal gripes with Netanyahu, and praised Hezbollah for being “very smart.”
nymag.com nymag.com
 
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Release the Kraken said:
Thanks for posting! Nothing but respect for Dr Gabor Mate who like Chomsky (also Jewish) is unafraid to expose the truth about Israel and the oppression of its indigenous and displaced Palestinians. When people behave like rabid animals as the Hamas terrorists did in their raid Saturday it’s because of seething hatred for their oppressors. Does that justify their actions? Of course not, but a different tack must be taken to stop the cycle of abuse. Netanyahu is a ruthless and despicable despot that must be replaced.

It’s colonialism pure and simple but instead of reparations made for the indigenous as in South Africa, the US and New Zealand, “Nakba” has not only displaced them (a people without a Country) but rendered them to second class status.

Dr Mate said he cried every day when he visited Gaza. I cry every day I turn on the TV as this citizen population, the ones that survive, are now homeless with no place to turn. And 150 or so Israeli hostages are probably also feeling the brunt of this horrific Israeli response. If there is only ever retaliation and abuse and never some kind of actual conciliation, this conflict, this cauldron of hatred and pain could be the end of us all. Iran undoubtedly has their nukes by now as do the Saudis and of course Israel. A festering wound like this won’t heal itself.
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I agree. I think Netanyahu is making a mistake by by going overboard in his response. As abhorrent as the Hamas attacks were, some semblance of proportionality should be maintained. Displacing hundreds of thousands of children is not going to end well for Israel.
 
This is disturbing: https://www.yahoo.com/news/israeli-babies-children-pictured-chilling-202827801.html

Dozens of Israeli children are known to have been killed or kidnapped by Hamas after it mounted its attack last Saturday.

It is feared that more than 100 Israeli hostages will be used by the terrorists as human shields.

The video may have been also released in response to some of the horrific images published by the Israeli government which appear to show babies and infants murdered by Hamas.

The images showed a blood-stained infant, still dressed in a babygrow and nappy, lying inside a small body bag.

“This is the most difficult image we’ve ever posted. As we are writing this we are shaking,” the Israeli government’s foreign ministry said in a post on Twitter.

“We went back and forth about posting this, but we need each and every one of you to know. This happened.”

On Friday, the foreign ministry posted another two graphic images. One showed a man who had been shot in the head, while another showed a limp, half-naked body being driven away on a motorbike.

Alongside the images, it wrote: “Women and girls raped. People burned alive. Young kids kidnapped. Babies tortured and murdered. Parents executed in front of their young children. Hamas is ISIS.”
 
Release the Kraken said:
When people behave like rabid animals as the Hamas terrorists did in their raid Saturday it’s because of seething hatred for their oppressors.
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When people behave like rabid animals then they need to be dealt with as if they are rabid animals. It is sickening that people are trying to justify the 'rabid animal' actions. When the FBI catches a serial killer, we don't say "Aw, his Mom was mean to him as a child so killing all those women was justified". If you want to dig in to why they are what they are, fine, but don't use that as a justification because it isn't one, and don't lose sight that they are what they are. These are people who will capture people, put them in metal cages and burn them alive while video recording it. These are the kind of people who will catch someone's grandmother and force her to log in to her Facebook on her phone so they can live stream to her family as they kill her.

History that happened before these killers were even born does not make these 'rabid animal' acts okay. It isn't justified and any effort to paint it that way is anti-Jew bigots being anti-Jew bigots.

Release the Kraken said:
It’s colonialism pure and simple but instead of reparations made for the indigenous as in South Africa, the US and New Zealand...
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That is such BS. The reparations already made to the Palestinians dwarf everything in South Africa and New Zealand combined. It is in the hundred of billions of dollars. When Yasser Arafat died, he had a personal net worth of over $3 billion dollars from all the skimming of money being given to Palestinians.

Release the Kraken said:
If there is only ever retaliation and abuse and never some kind of actual conciliation...
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Give them money? Already tried that. Give them a homeland? Already tried that. Give them legitimacy so they can control their own destiny? Already tried that. Offer them a peace agreement, and offer them peace agreements, and offer them peace agreements? Already tried that. It is beyond ignorance to suggest that Israel and the world has never offered "some kind of actual conciliation".
 
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fishonjazz said:
This is disturbing: https://www.yahoo.com/news/israeli-babies-children-pictured-chilling-202827801.html

Dozens of Israeli children are known to have been killed or kidnapped by Hamas after it mounted its attack last Saturday.

It is feared that more than 100 Israeli hostages will be used by the terrorists as human shields.

The video may have been also released in response to some of the horrific images published by the Israeli government which appear to show babies and infants murdered by Hamas.

The images showed a blood-stained infant, still dressed in a babygrow and nappy, lying inside a small body bag.

“This is the most difficult image we’ve ever posted. As we are writing this we are shaking,” the Israeli government’s foreign ministry said in a post on Twitter.

“We went back and forth about posting this, but we need each and every one of you to know. This happened.”

On Friday, the foreign ministry posted another two graphic images. One showed a man who had been shot in the head, while another showed a limp, half-naked body being driven away on a motorbike.

Alongside the images, it wrote: “Women and girls raped. People burned alive. Young kids kidnapped. Babies tortured and murdered. Parents executed in front of their young children. Hamas is ISIS.”
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www.nbcnews.com

'Top secret' Hamas documents show that terrorists intentionally targeted elementary schools and a youth center

Maps and documents recovered from the bodies of Hamas attackers reveal a coordinated plan to target children and take hostages inside an Israeli village near Gaza.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
 
Release the Kraken said:

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CQNgS6_y4XU&pp=ygUiZGVmZW5jZSBzZWNyZXRhdHkgYXVzdGluIGluIGlzcmFlbA%3D%3D
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Those hostages are probably lucky. I saw a dude talking about how he was happy that his child was killed because being kept alive would have just ended in a worse death for his child.

www.yahoo.com

Israeli father said he punched the air with relief when he heard Hamas had killed 8-year-old daughter as the alternative would have been 'worse than death'

Grief-stricken Thomas Hand told CNN he was glad his daughter had been killed rather than taken as Hamas hostage to Gaza, a fate "worse than death."
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com

A grief-stricken father said he was relieved that his eight-year-old daughter had been killed in a Hamas attack because the alternative would have been "worse than death."

They just said we found Emily, and she's dead." He said he punched the air, "I went 'yes!' I went 'yes!' and smiled," the father said while fighting back tears. "Because that is the best news of the possibilities that I knew."

"She was either dead or in Gaza. And if you know anything about what they do to people in Gaza, that is worse than death."

Hand said she would have been terrified every minute if she'd been held captive in Gaza and could have been imprisoned in the enclave for years.

"So death was a blessing. An absolute blessing," he said.

Emily was killed by Hamas fighters who stormed Be'eri Kibbutz and massacred over 100 Israeli civilians in a terrorist attack.

Her father, who is originally from Ireland, said the child had been at a sleepover with friends the night before the attack.
 
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fishonjazz said:
Those hostages are probably lucky. I saw a dude talking about how he was happy that his child was killed because being kept alive would have just ended in a worse death for his child.
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Yeah I saw that interview as well, really gut wrenching. However, I get the impression that the most of the families of hostages would like to have every opportunity to see their loved ones safely returned. The US has reached out to Qatar and others but Hamas refuses to negotiate until Israel stops shelling.

Anyway, now Netanyahu has managed to kill some of the hostages on top of dropping the ball on border security allowing the 10/7 incursion. Most damning is the fact that the US had provided Israel with intel just days and weeks prior suggesting suspicious Hamas activity and a build up which Netanyahu and his administration completely ignored.
 
Release the Kraken said:
Yeah I saw that interview as well, really gut wrenching. However, I get the impression that the most of the families of hostages would like to have every opportunity to see their loved ones safely returned.
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That is not what happens when HAMAS takes hostages. I wasn't being hyperbolic when I said they put hostages in metal cages and burn them alive on video. Getting anyone taken hostage back from Gaza is extremely rare. Despite what many apologists are saying, the hostages aren't bargaining chips. They're propaganda fodder. Nearly all of the hostages will meet a gruesome end.

Here is a story from October 9th, before there was any ground invasion.

The IDF finding them is the only real chance the hostages have, and even then it is likely that if the IDF gets close HAMAS will simply kill the hostages and blame the deaths on the IDF.
 
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