Do you want our pick to convey this year?

[homeytennis]

DL would have just said that's another ingredient in the kak.

 

[KqWIN]

It is not just Hendricks. It is frustration with one another. Its out there on the court. Its obvious. Hendricks gets his fair share sure. It does not have to be directly at Taylor or anyone but when you are frustrated with who you are playing with and don't care that everyone knows about it... it is implied that the frustration is with the new guys. Saying... hey nothing personal I really like working with the person you replaced more than you. Isn't a whole lot better than saying I don't think you are good enough.

He will have to earn it. I get that. But not throwing it to him in the corner when he's open ain't gonna help him prove it. Defensively its on him to make sure he impacts the game with his activity.

Its not just Taylor... its the bad body language with one another and not trusting teammates (not just Taylor). And for the 12th time. I'm cool with it being a week or so to blow off the steam. Literally said it in the OP I hope they got it out of their system and can now go to work... even if it isn't what they hoped.

They never said this though. It is known they feel this way (it's obvious that everyone knows that the guys they lost are better than Taylor), but their frustration was directed at the overall situation and once again...MOST IMPORTANTLY the players that are gone. Yeah we know that if you're upset that KO is gone it also indirectly means they liked playing with KO than TH and the other players on the roster. If you're going to take that to heart, tough **** I guess.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

They never said this though. It is known they feel this way (it's obvious that everyone knows that the guys they lost are better than Taylor), but their frustration was directed at the overall situation and once again...MOST IMPORTANTLY the players that are gone. Yeah we know that if you're upset that KO is gone it also indirectly means they liked playing with KO than TH and the other players on the roster. If you're going to take that to heart, tough **** I guess.

Yeah I mean they are saying it openly to the media. We may not get the exact words and they may not be these are bum *** chumps that we can't win with. From the article:

Tonight, players were pretty chatty. But it wasn’t because they don’t care if they win or lose anymore — it’s because they’re frustrated as can possibly be about the state of the team. And they didn’t really care if the media knew about it. In particular, they feel like they were sold a bill of goods.

Again... that's fine if the sentiment lasts a week. If it continues its another thing.

Its just funny they act like all is lost and its over... which becomes a self fulfilling prophecy and does more harm to the performance of the team than not having those players. If KO and Simone had sprained ankles that lasted 30 games would the season be doomed? Ochai was awful... he was about to be out of the rotation if we were really trying to compete.

So go ahead and have your moment but at some point go on ahead and do the job you get a pile of money to do. In 30 games if you don't feel valued still... go ahead and take that to management or leave in FA. Trades are part of the business and its not like we were a top 5 seed. We were like .5 game up or in the final play in spot with some good suitors behind us.

 

[fishonjazz]

Yeah I mean they are saying it openly to the media. We may not get the exact words and they may not be these are bum *** chumps that we can't win with. From the article:

Tonight, players were pretty chatty. But it wasn’t because they don’t care if they win or lose anymore — it’s because they’re frustrated as can possibly be about the state of the team. And they didn’t really care if the media knew about it. In particular, they feel like they were sold a bill of goods.

Again... that's fine if the sentiment lasts a week. If it continues its another thing.

Its just funny they act like all is lost and its over... which becomes a self fulfilling prophecy and does more harm to the performance of the team than not having those players. If KO and Simone had sprained ankles that lasted 30 games would the season be doomed? Ochai was awful... he was about to be out of the rotation if we were really trying to compete.

So go ahead and have your moment but at some point go on ahead and do the job you get a pile of money to do. In 30 games if you don't feel valued still... go ahead and take that to management or leave in FA. Trades are part of the business and its not like we were a top 5 seed. We were like .5 game up or in the final play in spot with some good suitors behind us.

Good post
Fwiw I believe that the raptors and pistons are 0-4 since the trade.

And I still don't think Hardy is trying all that hard to win games.

Kessler 5-7 from the field, 1-1 from the line, 11 points, 9 rebounds, 2 steals, 4 blocks and dead even in plus/minus in a game we lost by 22 points. Only 2 fouls. And he only gets 25 minutes.



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[Handlogten's Heros]

Good post
Fwiw I believe that the raptors and pistons are 0-4 since the trade.

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Its all a bit rich for me. Hopefully they chill a bit. The whole "we were sold a false bill of goods" is just acting like this was some huge dramatic betrayal. Like what did you want management to say? We aren't trying to make the playoffs this year?

What is the false bill of goods you were sold? Were you not going to play hard unless they told you they wouldn't trade any good players? Which player sacrificed to be here instead of somewhere else? Is barely holding onto the 10th seed holding up your end of that deal? Is the play in that big of a deal/experience that management shouldn't do what they feel is best for the long term health of the franchise.

There are some players that should have legitimate gripes about role and minutes throughout the season. I honestly think Hardy changing the rotation is just as much a sign of throwing in the towel as DA trading some guys. It sucks... for fans and the players. If trading Simone and KO really derails your season THAT much then what we had wasn't some sacred cow that needed to be preserved.

 

[KqWIN]

Yeah I mean they are saying it openly to the media. We may not get the exact words and they may not be these are bum *** chumps that we can't win with. From the article:

Tonight, players were pretty chatty. But it wasn’t because they don’t care if they win or lose anymore — it’s because they’re frustrated as can possibly be about the state of the team. And they didn’t really care if the media knew about it. In particular, they feel like they were sold a bill of goods.

Again... that's fine if the sentiment lasts a week. If it continues its another thing.

Its just funny they act like all is lost and its over... which becomes a self fulfilling prophecy and does more harm to the performance of the team than not having those players. If KO and Simone had sprained ankles that lasted 30 games would the season be doomed? Ochai was awful... he was about to be out of the rotation if we were really trying to compete.

So go ahead and have your moment but at some point go on ahead and do the job you get a pile of money to do. In 30 games if you don't feel valued still... go ahead and take that to management or leave in FA. Trades are part of the business and its not like we were a top 5 seed. We were like .5 game up or in the final play in spot with some good suitors behind us.

Methinks it’s a completely different feeling when players go down to injury and players are traded away for no current players. One is unfortunate luck, the other is a directive from the FO indicating that they don’t care about making the playoffs. Players in that locker room want to compete and win, when the FO directly goes against that cause it’s going to frustrate them. It is what it is.

Having said that, in both cases, players will be either upset or angry. If a player goes down and is upset that player is gone, idgaf if it makes the player who replaces the missing player feel bad because it indirectly implies they are worse. Like when Lauri was out, was it offensive to say that it was a big loss? That implies people besides Lauri are worse. Cry me a river.

 

[KqWIN]

The FO gave up on winning, don’t go shocked pikachu face when the players stop playing winning basketball. It’s like getting mad at Hardy for starting George “because it’s time”. Yeah….the goal isn’t to win the rest of the season so you’re not going to see the best winning performance by anyone. When the goal isn’t to win, you can’t grade the coaches on their contribution to winning/losing. It’s no longer the point of the season, if it ever was.

Getting back to the topic of this thread, I think it’s pretty clear that the Jazz want their pick back regardless of what was said. They don’t mind that the Jazz are getting pummeled as it puts them closer to the “prize”.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Methinks it’s a completely different feeling when players go down to injury and players are traded away for no current players. One is unfortunate luck, the other is a directive from the FO indicating that they don’t care about making the playoffs. Players in that locker room want to compete and win, when the FO directly goes against that cause it’s going to frustrate them. It is what it is.

Having said that, in both cases, players will be either upset or angry. If a player goes down and is upset that player is gone, idgaf if it makes the player who replaces the missing player feel bad because it indirectly implies they are worse. Like when Lauri was out, was it offensive to say that it was a big loss? That implies people besides Lauri are worse. Cry me a river.

Funny how you dgaf about some players feelings but give so many f's about other player's feelings in different situations. It is not like management sent a fruit basket saying "enjoy the playoffs lol" with a picture of DA giving two birds. I'm not defending their actions but its tough to see one as a targeted FU and having the players indicate frustration like they did verbally and on the court as just some thing that only a crybaby might take personal.

Management thinks they made the best decisions for the organization long term. Its a business decision. Why can't we say sorry... cry me a river?

Lauri is not the same as KO and Simone. When guys are out due to injury the general tone is "everybody gotta step up and fill their shoes" not "I'm so frustrated playing with these guys". Long term I would hope that will be the attitude of this group rather than feeling so hurt at what management did. I realize they are human and its fine to react this way now.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Funny how you dgaf about some players feelings but give so many f's about other player's feelings in different situations. It is not like management sent a fruit basket saying "enjoy the playoffs lol" with a picture of DA giving two birds. I'm not defending their actions but its tough to see one as a targeted FU and having the players indicate frustration like they did verbally and on the court as just some thing that only a crybaby might take personal.

Management thinks they made the best decisions for the organization long term. Its a business decision. Why can't we say sorry... cry me a river?

Lauri is not the same as KO and Simone. When guys are out due to injury the general tone is "everybody gotta step up and fill their shoes" not "I'm so frustrated playing with these guys". Long term I would hope that will be the attitude of this group rather than feeling so hurt at what management did. I realize they are human and its fine to react this way now.

Eventually I hope our guys take the "next man up attitude". **** management we will win anyway. That's all I'm saying... I hope the "woe is me" doesn't stick around as its not good for anyone.

 

[KqWIN]

Funny how you dgaf about some players feelings but give so many f's about other player's feelings in different situations. It is not like management sent a fruit basket saying "enjoy the playoffs lol" with a picture of DA giving two birds. I'm not defending their actions but its tough to see one as a targeted FU and having the players indicate frustration like they did verbally and on the court as just some thing that only a crybaby might take personal.

Management thinks they made the best decisions for the organization long term. Its a business decision. Why can't we say sorry... cry me a river?

Lauri is not the same as KO and Simone. When guys are out due to injury the general tone is "everybody gotta step up and fill their shoes" not "I'm so frustrated playing with these guys". Long term I would hope that will be the attitude of this group rather than feeling so hurt at what management did. I realize they are human and its fine to react this way now.

Well, situations are different. I think it’s totally understandable that the best players on this team are upset that the FO traded away so many players and gave up on them. Also, according to Andy Larsen, they told Lauri they were going to help him make the playoffs this year to justify what they did last year.

OTOH, if it hurts another players feelings because players are upset with the players that are gone….yeah I think that’s a little soft. Again, like Andy said, the players are upset about the guys that are gone. If it offends you that Lauri, Kessler, and JC (three players mentioned by Andy) are upset that they lost 3 players who were well respect are gone….cry about it.

For the last time, their frustrations were not directed at Hendricks. They never did the “I’m mad about playing with Taylor”. The direct quote says it’s more about the guys they lost. If you make this about Taylor, you are directly ignoring the quote. It’s about who they lost. I see nothing wrong about being upset by seeing those guys leave. Especially when it seems as though they were promised something different.

 

[Tanktastic]

Just an amazing fan base. The front office gets all the love, never makes mistakes, is always perfect and it feels like people would sacrifice their grandmas for Danny.

And the players, who have gone above and beyond, for a season and a half, despite everything, gets all the hate the second even something little goes wrong.

I've followed a lot of different sports and have never encountered something like this.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Well, situations are different. I think it’s totally understandable that the best players on this team are upset that the FO traded away so many players and gave up on them. Also, according to Andy Larsen, they told Lauri they were going to help him make the playoffs this year to justify what they did last year.

OTOH, if it hurts another players feelings because players are upset with the players that are gone….yeah I think that’s a little soft. Again, like Andy said, the players are upset about the guys that are gone. If it offends you that Lauri, Kessler, and JC (three players mentioned by Andy) are upset that they lost 3 players who were well respect are gone….cry about it.

For the last time, their frustrations were not directed at Hendricks. They never did the “I’m mad about playing with Taylor”. The direct quote says it’s more about the guys they lost. If you make this about Taylor, you are directly ignoring the quote. It’s about who they lost. I see nothing wrong about being upset by seeing those guys leave. Especially when it seems as though they were promised something different.

I have specified several times it isn't just Taylor. I don't think I indicated in the post you responded to that it was about Taylor.

 

[KqWIN]

Just an amazing fan base. The front office gets all the love, never makes mistakes, is always perfect and it feels like people would sacrifice their grandmas for Danny.

And the players, who have gone above and beyond, for a season and a half, despite everything, gets all the hate the second even something little goes wrong.

I've followed a lot of different sports and have never encountered something like this.

I’m not even calling it a mistake…but there are consequences for actions. You give up on the players, they gonna be mad. It is what it is. Maybe those picks will be worth it in the end.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Just an amazing fan base. The front office gets all the love, never makes mistakes, is always perfect and it feels like people would sacrifice their grandmas for Danny.

And the players, who have gone above and beyond, for a season and a half, despite everything, gets all the hate the second even something little goes wrong.

I've followed a lot of different sports and have never encountered something like this.

Sure man lol. That's what was said. I am probably one of the biggest skeptics of the front office on the board and give them a ton of ****.

 

[KqWIN]

I have specified several times it isn't just Taylor. I don't think I indicated in the post you responded to that it was about Taylor.

Ok, any of the players on the Jazz. Doesn’t change a single point. It’s about the guys that are gone. That’s why they are frustrated. That’s what Andy reported and specified was most important.

You keep saying the players sent a message of “I don’t want to play with these guys”. The report is clearly saying “I wish I was still playing with those guys”. Yeah of course one means the other, but it’s not the same tone. If offends the rest of the team that the Lauri/Kessler/JC wish they were still playing with the traded players….tough ****!

 

[fishonjazz]

The FO gave up on winning, don’t go shocked pikachu face when the players stop playing winning basketball. It’s like getting mad at Hardy for starting George “because it’s time”. Yeah….the goal isn’t to win the rest of the season so you’re not going to see the best winning performance by anyone. When the goal isn’t to win, you can’t grade the coaches on their contribution to winning/losing. It’s no longer the point of the season, if it ever was.

Getting back to the topic of this thread, I think it’s pretty clear that the Jazz want their pick back regardless of what was said. They don’t mind that the Jazz are getting pummeled as it puts them closer to the “prize”.

I'm not sure it was ever Hardy's goal to win this season prior to the trades.

I think, like Ainge, hardy has been in asset accumulation all season. The assets he has been accumulating is information about the roster. Hence going with 10 and 11 man rotations and spreading all the minutes out so equally and playing box and one defense.

I mean can anyone find an example of any other team who is trying to win doing these things?

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[fishonjazz]

Just an amazing fan base. The front office gets all the love, never makes mistakes, is always perfect and it feels like people would sacrifice their grandmas for Danny.

And the players, who have gone above and beyond, for a season and a half, despite everything, gets all the hate the second even something little goes wrong.

I've followed a lot of different sports and have never encountered something like this.

What a weird post. You haven't seen all the criticism that the FO has been getting?
Might want to try opening your eyes.
Tons of criticism by the fan base on jazzfanz. Tons of criticism by the fanbase on Facebook. I assume there is a bunch on Twitter (I don't have Twitter)


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[Handlogten's Heros]

Ok, any of the players on the Jazz. Doesn’t change a single point. It’s about the guys that are gone. That’s why they are frustrated. That’s what Andy reported and specified was most important.

You keep saying the players sent a message of “I don’t want to play with these guys”. The report is clearly saying “I wish I was still playing with those guys”. Yeah of course one means the other, but it’s not the same tone. If offends the rest of the team that the Lauri/Kessler/JC wish they were still playing with the traded players….tough ****!

Its not just the tone. Its what happened on court too. You also don't know the exact tone of what is being communicated (just like I don't).

There is a difference between saying "we gonna miss those guys" and "we gonna miss those guys and we know we are ****ed now". The "tone" is the ladder of those. In the moment I understand the frustration... long term I hope the attitude changes. Is that so wrong?

 

[KqWIN]

Its not just the tone. Its what happened on court too. You also don't know the exact tone of what is being communicated (just like I don't).

There is a difference between saying "we gonna miss those guys" and "we gonna miss those guys and we know we are ****ed now". The "tone" is the ladder of those. In the moment I understand the frustration... long term I hope the attitude changes. Is that so wrong?

Maybe, but it's still completely different than the "we hate who we're playing with" that you have repeatedly suggested. We're all going off the same report. The report could not be more clear in saying the guys were upset about who was traded away.

I don't think your attitude is, but neither is the players reaction. I agree that the frustration was more than understandable, and hearing more info like the FO potentially promising Lauri things makes it even more understandable. Chances are the FO wants them to be ****ed. Based on their moves, the FO answer to this poll would be a very clear "No, I want a Top 10 pick this year!". But if you expect the locker room answer to be the same, that's an unreasonable expectation. Of course they want to make the playoffs and of course they don't like what the FO did.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Maybe, but it's still completely different than the "we hate who we're playing with" that you have repeatedly suggested. We're all going off the same report. The report could not be more clear in saying the guys were upset about who was traded away.

I exaggerated of course.

I don't think your attitude is, but neither is the players reaction. I agree that the frustration was more than understandable, and hearing more info like the FO potentially promising Lauri things makes it even more understandable. Chances are the FO wants them to be ****ed. Based on their moves, the FO answer to this poll would be a very clear "No, I want a Top 10 pick this year!". But if you expect the locker room answer to be the same, that's an unreasonable expectation. Of course they want to make the playoffs and of course they don't like what the FO did.

Obviously the players don't care about a pick lol. They want to have success.

If they want to pout for a game or two then fine. If they continue to sulk then they are the ones who are soft. Trades, injuries, etc. **** happens. I don't think the FO tried to piss them off lol.