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gomretat said:
Agreed. Danny has always been clear about being an opportunist and there never has been a plan that anyone can articulate. You might be right about moving Lauri but that would prove how ridiculous this entire process has been. You trade two all-stars, probably both HOF players and then you trade the best asset you got back in return? If you trade Lauri, what are you waiting for and where does it end?
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Right. Move Lauri and you are stacked with picks and likely waiting to strike gold in the lotto or hit big on a pick. But you spun your wheels for a couple years… so the fan base patience wears real thin. Likely would get a haul for Lauri. You’d be starting the tank from like step 2 or 3 but often it takes a few years to get the transcendent talent.

I think we extend Lauri this offseason but if he says no you have to move him and it’s full tank mode. I think we are close to the end of this stick in the lower middle purgatory but who knows. Indecision can often be confused with patience.
 
Chargers Jazz Angels said:
This offseason should be indicative of what direction they want to go in. They have cap space and what they do with that cap space will be telling.

If Lauri is shipped out to OKC for say Giddy, Dieng, Wallace, and 3 FRP then they are in tank mode.

If they keep the roster and go hard for like OG, Quickley, or Bridges

If they make the star move and trade for Ingram or something

This summer should be very telling.
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Isn't the most likely scenario exactly what we've seen happen already?

Pick 2-3 rookies, send them to the G league. Get some "John Collins" type flyer. Team is surprisingly decent (assuming Lauri is still on it and Hardy hasn't had a mental breakdown). End up in no-man's land and try to salvage something at the deadline.
 
outerspacefan said:
Forever it's not the same for every dude... my forever is not that long....
In fact it's step 2, last season was step 1... and Danny's cookbook nowadays appears to have lots of steps...
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A step doesn’t just end with a season. Do you think it’s easy to build a team up like that. We got rid of players last and this year, and there’s more to let go and I suspect step one won’t end till we ultimately part ways with Markkanen. Your either in it for the long haul or just get out.
 
If Danny is operating on the assumption that you have to have a Top 10 or even Top 5 player to win a championship then the team clearly should have tanked hard both years. Tanking provides premium picks that could be great players or traded for great players.

Spending two years idling in no-man's-land does nothing.

I don't think it's reasonable to expect Danny to be able to acquire a Top 10 player through a trade. It's just not gonna happen in Utah. Luca is not coming to Utah. On the other hand drafting a Top 10 player requires tanking for multiple years and a lot of luck.

But the game is changing a bit with the new CBA. It will be really hard to assemble star studded banana boat-style teams in the next few years. Already we are seeing star loaded teams with paper thin rotations.
I get a sense that a really well coached, well crafted and deep roster built around two or three all-star levels players could really make some noise. Sort of a 1980 USA Hockey approach to team building. It would be rough road but would be less dependent on dumb luck.
 
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Ensign Nate said:
I don't think it's reasonable to expect Danny to be able to acquire a Top 10 player through a trade. It's just not gonna happen in Utah. Luca is not coming to Utah.
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Free agency no, and we obviously can’t trade for a star if none come available. But what’s this crap about we can’t trade for a star not in Utah. Just stop with that.
 
Superstar willl never come to Utah, but star player may ( Ingram level). DA need to be activ next off season as those 2 seasons have been pretty annoying. Choose a path and go for it.
 
gomretat said:
Agreed. Danny has always been clear about being an opportunist and there never has been a plan that anyone can articulate. You might be right about moving Lauri but that would prove how ridiculous this entire process has been. You trade two all-stars, probably both HOF players and then you trade the best asset you got back in return? If you trade Lauri, what are you waiting for and where does it end?
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There are multiple plans and contingency plans for sure. They dont just "wing it" in a billion dollar business. But not everything is under our control. If we want to build up but the correct guys arent there, then we cannot do much better than to kick the can down the road.

But now they actually put us in a different type of position than last year. Last off season we were closer to being relevant... some could argue that we were just 1 star and few tweaks away. Now we still need that 1 star but we also need 2 quality role players and we dont have nearly as many easily tradable salaries and our only expiring in 2024-25 is gonna be Lauri. With 3 picks potentially upcoming in 2024 and 3 more in 2025, its very much possible that we are going to dive deeper if we cannot make something happen at draft day.

Think about this:
If we trade away Clarkson and Collins (both were firmly in the display window few weeks ago) and let THT walk, then Walker Kessler will be our 4th most experienced player.
 
Also do not fail to notice the fact that last season at the DL we traded away guys that didnt fit the team or the timeline (+NAW, who was collateral).

This season we just simply cashed in.
 
Lets also remember to listen to the FO even though they understandably hide their cards.

Last season after the DL they gave multiple interviews raving about our ability to acquire not 1 but 2 stars if the opportunity comes. They also justified the trades as being the result of the "evaluation process". This season Zanik spoke about the long term goals and that we want to build a championship level team that is gonna be good for a long time. And they only justified the trades "by return value".

There is a definite change of tone between the Wob interview at the Utah All-star weekend and what Zanik said this time around. Also where is DA? Has anyone heard of him giving even private off camera interviews lately? Or did they just send Zanik out there to give "the company line" speech?
 
HermanG said:
There are multiple plans and contingency plans for sure. They dont just "wing it" in a billion dollar business. But not everything is under our control. If we want to build up but the correct guys arent there, then we cannot do much better than to kick the can down the road.

But now they actually put us in a different type of position than last year. Last off season we were closer to being relevant... some could argue that we were just 1 star and few tweaks away. Now we still need that 1 star but we also need 2 quality role players and we dont have nearly as many easily tradable salaries and our only expiring in 2024-25 is gonna be Lauri. With 3 picks potentially upcoming in 2024 and 3 more in 2025, its very much possible that we are going to dive deeper if we cannot make something happen at draft day.

Think about this:
If we trade away Clarkson and Collins (both were firmly in the display window few weeks ago) and let THT walk, then Walker Kessler will be our 4th most experienced player.
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You certainly dont wing it in a billion dollar business but this is far and above more opportunistic than planned. Danny has admitted it and having lived in 6 different NBA cities, I have never seen anything like this. Acting like there is a master plan is pretending at this point. As for Clarkson, once again I say, he was not going to be traded either of the last two years without a colossal return that no one would give because Smith wants him here for more than basketball reasons. Keynote might free that up this next year.
 
outerspacefan said:
Markkanen, the same as Clarkson, are not players that will play to their strenghts in isolation or reactive basketball. The former needs a structure because he's not a ballhandler or self creator really, and the later can create but needs to know where space will be or at least a space creation scheme around him. All these requirements have been completely wiped because the team has been kind of dismantled two seasons in a row.
I expect Lauri and Jordan to have a hell in front of them for the reminder of the season, which is not good for them as players, niether for their value or for the Jazz.

Are we seeing Danny's decline?
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Dementia Danny for POTUS.
 
We’re going to start winning in 2026 with a contending window 28-31. Next year will be rough, intentionally. Buckle up.
 
Thee Idiotic Minivan K said:
A step doesn’t just end with a season. Do you think it’s easy to build a team up like that. We got rid of players last and this year, and there’s more to let go and I suspect step one won’t end till we ultimately part ways with Markkanen. Your either in it for the long haul or just get out.
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Anyone is entitled to define the step variable the way better suits themselves. I prefer to use objective parameters like the timeline between February deadlines, or the set of instances comprised in a season where teams are allowed to make roster changes.

Not easy to build a team, but impossible if the path is not consistent, metodic, value oriented, related to franchise reality... the opposite of opportunistic in fact.

To part ways with Markkanen and the way it takes form (if it happens) will be driven by the circumstances set by RS/DA. Bare in mind they declined an invitation to get a chance at VW. I don't know much but I guess a pair of LM and VW most probably would have big time shortened the number of steps, no matter what any of us thinks on steps.

Here for the long haul. To critic doesn't mean I'm less of a fan.
 
gomretat said:
You certainly dont wing it in a billion dollar business but this is far and above more opportunistic than planned. Danny has admitted it and having lived in 6 different NBA cities, I have never seen anything like this. Acting like there is a master plan is pretending at this point. As for Clarkson, once again I say, he was not going to be traded either of the last two years without a colossal return that no one would give because Smith wants him here for more than basketball reasons. Keynote might free that up this next year.
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They may not have a master plan, but they have multiple plans. To get a read its important to see how they position the team going forward.

They can still walk the path of building up, but it takes more now than it took last season. However going towards the "building through draft" and tanking for Flagg is now super easy as after the 2025 draft we could have as many as 10 guys on rookie contracts (3 from 2023, 3 from 2024 and 3 from 2025 plus Kessler).

Thats a massive amount of young prospects... but how do you get them all minutes? What do those minutes do to your winning chances?
 
outerspacefan said:
Anyone is entitled to define the step variable the way better suits themselves. I prefer to use objective parameters like the timeline between February deadlines, or the set of instances comprised in a season where teams are allowed to make roster changes.
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Put it anyway you want but you just did it yourself
 
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