Why the Hell Isn't Rudy in the Starting Lineup?

[Hotdog]

You said really good team. You set that bar yourself. You didn't say championship team

I ajve no idea what you are talking about here. I've always been about winning the championship. I've never been satisfied which just being good.

We are discussing only defense vs only offense. Nice try

That is why I had nash, harden, dirk. (Horrible defenders) if you think durant and lopez are good defenders then go ahead and pick two other great offensive players that suck at defense.

You can't have the guys you chose on that defensive team cause they are all good offensive players.

Basically pick a team with all time great scorers who suck at defense vs a team of all time great defenders who suck at offense. See who would win.

I could name an all defensive team that could beat an all offensive team. But this exercise is pointless. I could just sit here all day an put players like CJ Miles up against Draymond Green type of players and make the argument win for me.

And I've never said I don't like offense. You are putting words in my mouth and only hearing what you want to.

Here, let me make it loud and clear


I WANT TWO WAY PLAYERS, OR DEFENSIVE PLAYERS. NOT JUST ONE WAY OFFENSIVE PLAYERS. PLAYERS MUST BE ABLE TO PLAY DEFENSE. OR AT LEAST TRY. YOU CAN'T WIN WITHOUT DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!! OF COURSE OFFENSE IS IMPORTANT. BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU DON'T D UP.


was that clear enough?


SHOW ME ONE TEAM THAT HAS EVER WON A CHAMPIONSHIP NOT PLAYING DEFENSE.





HOLY COW!!! THIS IS NOT HARD TO UNDERSTAND!!!!!!

 

[fishonjazz]

I ajve no idea what you are talking about here. I've always been about winning the championship. I've never been satisfied which just being good.

This what I'm taking about. You said you can't be a really good team (didn't say championship) with one way offensive players.
That jazz team and suns team were both really good.

I don't think you can be a really good team with one way offensive players.

 

[Hotdog]

This what I'm taking about. You said you can't be a really good team (didn't say championship) with one way offensive players.
That jazz team and suns team were both really good.

Really good??


So you consider a team who regularly got best down by in the playoffs to be a really good team?

 

[Hotdog]

Yep. Boozer and Kanter might be similar defensive players, but Boozer was a much better (team) offensive player. The two aren't comparable; Boozer was a legitimate all-star, Kanter is a third big.

Sent from the JazzFanz app

Please stfu. You are a moron


Boozer was the product of a system where he hit a lot of easy jumpers because he had the energy too, because he didn't play defense. He barely made the all star team ONCE!!!!, and he sucked

 

[fishonjazz]

I could name an all defensive team that could beat an all offensive team. But this exercise is pointless. I could just sit here all day an put players like CJ Miles up against Draymond Green type of players and make the argument win for me.

And I've never said I don't like offense. You are putting words in my mouth and only hearing what you want to.

Here, let me make it loud and clear


I WANT TWO WAY PLAYERS, OR DEFENSIVE PLAYERS. NOT JUST ONE WAY OFFENSIVE PLAYERS. PLAYERS MUST BE ABLE TO PLAY DEFENSE. OR AT LEAST TRY. YOU CAN'T WIN WITHOUT DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!! OF COURSE OFFENSE IS IMPORTANT. BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU DON'T D UP.


was that clear enough?


SHOW ME ONE TEAM THAT HAS EVER WON A CHAMPIONSHIP NOT PLAYING DEFENSE.





HOLY COW!!! THIS IS NOT HARD TO UNDERSTAND!!!!!!

I don't know why this is so hard to understand.

I'm saying that one way elite offensive players are greater than one way elite defensive players. (Offense is just as valueable as defense)

Ben Wallace defensive player of the year. Horrible on offense.
Dirk nowitski great offensive player. Horrible on defense.
Bruce bowen and tony allen. All defensive team. Great defenders. Horrible on offense.
James harden. Great offensive player. Horrible defender.

I take dirk and harden in my team over bowen/allen and Wallace

 

[fishonjazz]

Please stfu. You are a moron


Boozer was the product of a system where he hit a lot of easy jumpers because he had the energy too, because he didn't play defense. He barely made the all star team ONCE!!!!, and he sucked

Why you being a dick. You said that a team can't be really good with one way offensive players. (Your words)

Do you think the jazz were really good when they went to the western conference finals? Did they have offensive one way players on that team?

Do you think nashs suns were a really good team when they went to the western conference finals? Did they have one way offensive players?

Why you so upset? I'm just clarifying what you said is all. You can just say you meant championship teams can't have one way offensive players if ya want..... but I'm certain that there have been championship teams with one way offensive players on them too. (Dirk)

 

[Dumb Bloke]

Back in the day I thought it was Jerry Sloan that was making bad decisions with his rotations, like playing Boozer over Millsap, and other weird decisions. Then Corbin would do the same, and I thought maybe it was because he emulated Sloan. Now Quin does it.

I don't get it. I don't see the benefit from insisting on playing inferior lazy players over players who compete. At the presses they all say the things you would expect to hear, like nothing is given, and if you don't play defense then you won't play, etc.. But it doesn't appear that it's ever going to change. There is some clearly wrong with upper management. Regardless of who is in charge. Larry, Jerry, and KOC all gone, but still the same results.

How many seasons will be wasted with this approach?

This is precisely why Kanter HAS to be traded. I don't give a **** what anyone has to say. It isn't going to work with him. I've seen this story wayyyyy too many times. It's gonna be Kanter over Gobert all day until he's gone. Otherwise, the Jazz will do what they always do, play lip service to defensive needs, but never act on it.

Basically, if you play for the Jazz, you will never be held accountable for your defensive efforts as long as you can put the ball in the hoop every once in a while.

Yay! For never learning from our mistakes. So much fun repeating this stupid *** history over and over and over......

Lol that is hillarious mockery. You should write for the onion!

 

[framer]

Boozer was elite at distributing the ball from the post. Not just good, but one of the best in the league. He was light years better at this than Millsap at the time. If Kanter could do that, people wouldn't be so hyper focused on his lack of Defense, because he would be more than just the sum of his parts.

 

[Dumb Bloke]

So for Kanter's offense, we are giving up passing, defense, rim protection, offensive flow, and basketball IQ. I think that is too much to give up for that little of offense. ME WANTUM RUDY TO START. I get so bummed when Rudy isn't on the floor.

What did Dikembe ever do for a team? You cannot afford to have one way defensive specialists start. Gobert will never be a starter until he develops offense.

 

[Dumb Bloke]

Boozer was elite at distributing the ball from the post. Not just good, but one of the best in the league. He was light years better at this than Millsap at the time. If Kanter could do that, people wouldn't be so hyper focused on his lack of Defense, because he would be more than just the sum of his parts.

Boozer cant score in the post like Kanter so he had to learn to pass. Kanter shoots over 62% in the post which is why Quin tells him not to pass. There is no better shot available then Kanters. Kanter is an above average passer for a big man outside the low post so I think he could do it there just fine if asked to.

 

[fishonjazz]

Boozer was elite at distributing the ball from the post. Not just good, but one of the best in the league. He was light years better at this than Millsap at the time. If Kanter could do that, people wouldn't be so hyper focused on his lack of Defense, because he would be more than just the sum of his parts.

This.
Kanter is not that good offensively right now.
Combine that with really bad defense and there is your reason we are all down on him.

If kanters offensive game was as good as dirks then we would not be bitching about his defense

 

[fishonjazz]

@ hack, sorry for upsetting you bro. Didn't mean anything by it

 

[GVC]

Please stfu. You are a moron


Boozer was the product of a system where he hit a lot of easy jumpers because he had the energy too, because he didn't play defense. He barely made the all star team ONCE!!!!, and he sucked

Boozer was named an all-star twice with the Jazz. He was one of the two key pieces on a couple elite offensive teams. Bad timing (the construction of super-teams in Boston and LA) and a strange collection of supporting players (no shooting on the wing, no rim protection from the 5) were what did the Deron-Boozer teams in. Keep in mind, in their best seasons, those Jazz teams had above average (per possession) defenses (12th in 07/08, 10th in 09/10 per basketball -reference.com).

 

[Hotdog]

@ hack, sorry for upsetting you bro. Didn't mean anything by it

I'm not upset.

It's just dumb that I have to explain why defense is important Especially when there is no record of a team winning a championship who wasn't great at defense.

I don't think a team that makes the playoffs but gets beat down, is a really good team. Teams like the Spurs and the most recent Lakers championship team were really good teams.


Players that won't play defense are a complete waste of time. And I have no respect for them because they are only there for the paycheck. I don't root for that. Defense is about effort. A lot of players in this league save their energy for offense. It's no big secret. They do it because they know more shots will fall if they have more energy. More points per game means more money. Plain and simple.

That's why the Spurs are who they are. They are a great defensive team. Popavich doesn't screw around. He demands defense. And what do you know, they win championships. Without their defense they wouldn't win championships. That's a fact.

 

[GVC]

@ hack, sorry for upsetting you bro. Didn't mean anything by it

Why apologize to that *******? Dude might be the worst combination of ignorance and arrogance in jazzfanz history.

 

[Hotdog]

Boozer was named an all-star twice with the Jazz. He was one of the two key pieces on a couple elite offensive teams. Bad timing (the construction of super-teams in Boston and LA) and a strange collection of supporting players (no shooting on the wing, no rim protection from the 5) were what did the Deron-Boozer teams in. Keep in mind, in their best seasons, those Jazz teams had above average (per possession) defenses (12th in 07/08, 10th in 09/10 per basketball -reference.com).

Pull your head put your ***. That team was atrocious at defense.

You apparently do not watch games and just look at stats. It's sad. You have no ability to evaluate a team or a player.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Lets see if Kanter is still starting after the trade deadline this year. All this complaining sounds a lot like how people were complaining about Josh Howard and Richard Jefferson starting in past seasons. It's called showcasing players to assert their trade value.

Also, keep in mind that the Jazz aren't actually trying to win right now. They want to draft one more stud.


Add one more exciting player to Exum / Hayward / Favors / Gobert, and we might actually have something.

 

[fishonjazz]

I'm not upset.

It's just dumb that I have to explain why defense is important Especially when there is no record of a team winning a championship who wasn't great at defense.

I don't think a team that makes the playoffs but gets beat down, is a really good team. Teams like the Spurs and the most recent Lakers championship team were really good teams.


Players that won't play defense are a complete waste of time. And I have no respect for them because they are only there for the paycheck. I don't root for that. Defense is about effort. A lot of players in this league save their energy for offense. It's no big secret. They do it because they know more shots will fall if they have more energy. More points per game means more money. Plain and simple.

That's why the Spurs are who they are. They are a great defensive team. Popavich doesn't screw around. He demands defense. And what do you know, they win championships. Without their defense they wouldn't win championships. That's a fact.

My point is that I think you can have bad defenders on championship teams as long as that player is special offensively (dirk win a chip), is a really good role player who fits in (Steve kerr with chips), or you can hide thier poor individual defense with scheme and having other good defenders (diaw)

History is full of championship teams with poor defenders on them

 

[fishonjazz]

Why apologize to that *******? Dude might be the worst combination of ignorance and arrogance in jazzfanz history.

Cause I hate it when I argue with people and always feel guilty. No matter who it's with. And I like hack

 

[kabenac]

OP - Most of us wonder the same thing. Maybe they're looking to inflate Kanter's number so we can trade him prior to the deadline is one excuse. But aside from that there's not much else. Rudy is a defensive beast who shoots over 62% from the floor. And for those who claim he is offensively limited I would use the Jazzfanz.com argument of giving him playing time & experience. The guy is already one of the most exciting inside presences in the league - not bad for a guy who played less than 10 minutes a game his rookie season!