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2020 Presidential election

Beer said:
I will go down with a clean conscience and the right to bitch and moan about whomever is in office. I don't want to hear GF and OB and whomever else bitching when Biden is ******** the bed left and right same with PJF and all the other Trumpers, although they would never criticize their dear leader no matter what he does.
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I absolutely reserve the right to criticize Biden. He ain't my boy or some ****. He's the person who isn't Trump who has a chance to get elected, thus ridding us of Trump.

I made pretty clear that I'm not in this for love of one party over the other. I consider Trump a special case and one that should be stamped out hard. I feel strongly that he needs to lose this election in a landslide, partly to preserve our nation's peaceful transfer of power, partly to send a signal to all the white nationalists, QAnon ****tards, segregation era romanticists and just plain assholes that this isn't their country and if they think someone should leave maybe it's them.
 
“Going down with a clean conscience” is one of the stupidest concepts ever. I don’t care what theater of action you put that concept in, it’s ****ing way too moral, self-important, and out-of-touch. The real world is more interesting (even if it is also more brutal).

It’s one thing for these clean-conscience folks to be too weak to face reality, but it’s another thing altogether when they also find all this time to cast dispersions on people who grapple with real-world options on their behalf. They basically need to shut the **** up while new coalitions are built for them to free-ride on in the future.
 
NAOS said:
“Going down with a clean conscience” is one of the stupidest concepts ever. I don’t care what theater of action you put that concept in, it’s ****ing way too moral, self-important, and out-of-touch. The real world is more interesting (even if it is also more brutal).

It’s one thing for these clean-conscience folks to be too weak to face reality, but it’s another thing altogether when they also find all this time to cast dispersions on people who grapple with real-world options on their behalf. They basically need to shut the **** up while new coalitions are built for them to free-ride on in the future.
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People can vote for whomever they want, it's their call, but I don't do protest votes personally because we all live in the outcome of the election regardless of whose name we checked. Nobody gets a free pass - the same policies will apply to the electorate.

I can't take four more years of idiocy.
 
Avery said:
Reagan's infamous question was 'Are you better off than you were four years ago?'

Four years ago, I wasn't wearing a mask just trying to pump some gas. My job is less secure now - I've been lucky and we weren't hit as hard by the downturn, but fiscals have been soft. I didn't have to think about how I would possibly have to manage kids at home instead of school.

My 401k is still solid - not as high as it was back in January, but has crept back up. Don't need a home loan but know rates are at historic lows. Not everything is a mess by any means.

The reality is that America isn't better than we were four years ago - we are more polarized and looked at in disdain by the rest of the world. And regardless of a person's personal feelings on the matter, when **** rolls downhill, you have to look at who's at the top of the food chain and make a choice for change.

That's why I'm voting against Trump. Biden might faceplant and not be any better when I re-evaluate the field again in 2024, but he's the best choice for this moment - and this moment is all that matters.
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All of your current problems are because of the pandemic it seems like.
 
Avery said:
People can vote for whomever they want, it's their call, but I don't do protest votes personally because we all live in the outcome of the election regardless of whose name we checked. Nobody gets a free pass - the same policies will apply to the electorate.

I can't take four more years of idiocy.
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This is more or less my same general perspective. But I think it’s important to realize we aren’t in general time right now. This has been a period of unusually high amounts of institutional and corporal destruction. It’s therefore hard for me to understand the typical protest vote: the usual vagueness of that kind of vote (protesting what, exactly? and how?) is easily and immediately subsumed by the present, on-the-ground reality that right now such a vote is FOR MORE DESTRUCTION. Whether it be for Trump (which has always been a protest vote) or against Biden. In other words, a protest vote in 2020 is just as binary as a Dem-Rep vote.

If someone thinks we need more destruction before we can have some kind of creative renaissance, then fine. I could almost grock that in some kind of Marxian way. But none of these clean-conscious protest voters are putting forward anything coherent like that as a justification. At least the far left protest voters are willing to live some of the suffering that they think the world needs more of right now in order to transform.
 
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Avery said:
Obama's speech from last night was pretty close to a perfect encapsulation of everything wrong with Trump in 20 minutes.

I don't agree with everything his admin did, but he's the most gifted orator to ever sit in the oval office.
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This.
That dude can nail a speech

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I went to my sisters house the other day for dinner and her husband was saying that he just registered to vote for the first time in his life (he is in his late 30's and an ex marine who fought in Afghanistan) just so he can vote against trump. I told him I hadn't ever voted before 2016 and registered just to vote against trump in that election.
So if there is one thing good about trump I guess it's that he gets people to the polls to vote who normally wouldn't lol

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Biden seemed mentally sound in his acceptance speech.
 
fishonjazz said:
Isn't there more than one "election day"?

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No. Election Day is set. Early voting is possible in some states. But it’s not uniform. And in places with large minority populations, repubs have cut down on polling places and staff to discourage voting.

Especially if you’re attacking the Post Office where some states require the mail-in ballots received before election. He’s just engaging in poll intimidation, a tactic used historically by white supremacists. Shocking he’d do such a thing!

 
Biden is so much more coherent than Trump it isn’t even funny. And this speech without an audience makes it super intimate and personal.

Can’t wait for Stormy to tell her love story with Trump!
 
Thought Biden’s speech was pretty solid. Angry Biden doesn’t do it for me and I don’t find it particularly effective, but his empathy and slower passages are spot on. I’m not a strategist, but he should really highlight this in the debates as I think Americans are ready for someone who gives a damn again.
 
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