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Abortion Bills in the South

@Catchall

The problem right now is that a very significant percentage of pregnancies are being aborted. In the early 80s, apparently over 30% of pregnancies were aborted. That number has declined, however it's still substantial. The majority aren't abortions due to health concerns, or because the woman was raped. They're unwanted pregnancies that are aborted for convenience.

This statement isn’t supported by facts. Teen pregnancy and Abortions rates are at historic lows:


A538D94D-44C7-48CD-A98F-6B90B4B03C63.jpeg FE401419-8C2E-4C02-856F-42E48998B974.png

Furthermore, the states with the worst teen pregnancy and abortion rates are the ones passing these anti-abortion measures:

9A53714F-9E27-45A1-B6EC-47CC4B4A47B8.png
Yet, research finds that comprehensive sex education and access to medical care are the best ways to lower unwanted pregnancies. Not abstinence only. Yet, 3/4 of the states who have recently passed these anti-abortion laws (Ohio, Louisiana, and Missouri) only teach abstinence only. They do not permit comprehensive sex Edu:

071F3C1E-A7BA-428B-867D-CEEF96DB38A5.png

Yet, none of these red states currently passing anti-abortion legislation are integrating comprehensive sex education into school curriculum nor are they making access to health care easier.

Why is that? If your goal is to lower unwanted pregnancies and abortion rates, why wouldn’t you use comprehensive sex education and health care?

Sources: CDC, Guttmacher Institute, Berkeley, Planned Parenthood, and Huffington Post.
 
FWIW, John Stockton is very anti abortion rights. So much so that he wrote about it in his book.

So I must be wrong.
 
My take:
The Alabama bill was purposely kept severe to force a debate on when life begins. So it allows for no exceptions. Rape? incest? No matter, when there is a heart beat, there is another human being, period. That the human being exists within another human being does not deprive him or her of their rights, most importantly the right to exist. If the person exists due to rape or incest, it should not matter to the rights of that person. The unborn person is not responsible for the sins of his or her parents. Harsh. But it is intellectually consistent.
This bill is also born dead. By that I mean that it is by definition unconstitutional. Roe has been upheld several times by the supreme court. There are several pro choice groups lining up law suits to stop it, Roe will be upheld, and Alabama blocked, at the lower court levels because of supreme court precedents. So nobody in Alabama is going to be prosecuted for performing abortions. At least until the case gets to the supreme court. That process of working its way through the courts will take time. Most likely through the election season. All the while, we as a nation will be debating when does life start. When does a fetus become a person? The supreme court may choose not to hear the Alabama case at all, or it could choose to hear cases involving several of the restrictive bills now being passed. But nothing will change until the USSC decides what to do about it. The drafters of the Alabama bill want the USSC to rule on when life begins. Because if a heart beat can be proof of life, Roe can be diluted or over turned.
I welcome the debate. I believe a woman should have control over her body. But I also think that control should begin before pregnancy. The Pro choice advocates want to eliminate all responsibility for previous bad choices. Let's educate women and girls about sex in a way that actually prepares them for making good choices. (And give the men and boys the same education and responsibility.) Let's not pretend that the pro life groups don't have a point that abortions are more than a simple medical procedure, like having your tonsils taken out. Just a bit of unwanted flesh. I also think that it is foolish of the pro life advocates to not recognize the life changing dilemma of an unwanted pregnancy. If we are going to be pro life, we have to consider the life of the woman as well. How can it be ethical to condemn both the prospective mother and the unborn child to a life of poverty and hardship? I don't know if a compromise is possible, but I think it begins with reasoned debate.
I don't have the answers. I also cringe at the prospect of this becoming a campaign issue. I think it will be hard to have a reasoned debate, when people dig in to their politically orthodox positions. I hope we can actually discuss this like reasoning adults, and not sling one liners and slogans across the bow of the opposition. I welcome jazzfanz thoughts on this important issue.
 
As I posted in another thread (can't make the link work)

Men Cause 100% of Unwanted Pregnancies

Our conversation about abortion places the burden of responsibility on women. I argue men are the root cause.

As a mother of six and a Mormon, I have a good understanding of arguments surrounding abortion, religious and otherwise. When I hear men discussing women’s reproductive rights, I’m often left with the thought that they have zero interest in stopping abortion.

If you want to prevent abortion, you need to prevent unwanted pregnancies. Men seem unable (or unwilling) to admit that they cause 100% of them.

I realize that’s a bold statement. You’re likely thinking, “Wait. It takes two to tango!” While I fully agree with you in the case of intentional pregnancies, I argue that all unwanted pregnancies are caused by the irresponsible ejaculations of men. All of them.

Don’t believe me?

Let’s start with this: A woman’s egg is only fertile for about two days each month. Yes, there are exceptions, because nature. But one egg which is fertile two days each month is the baseline. And those fertile eggs are produced for a limited number of years. This means, on average, women are fertile for about 24 days per year.

But men are fertile 365 days a year. In fact, if you’re a man who ejaculates multiple times a day, you could cause multiple pregnancies daily. In theory, a man could cause 1000+ unwanted pregnancies in just one year. While it’s true that sperm gets crappier as men age, it doesn’t have a fertility expiration date; men can cause unwanted pregnancies from puberty until death. So, starting with basic fertility stats and the calendar, it’s easy to see that men are the issue here.

As a society, we really don’t mind if women suffer, physically or mentally, as long as it makes things easier for men.

“But what about birth control?” you might ask. “ If a woman can manage to figure out how to get an abortion, surely she can use birth control to avoid unwanted pregnancy, right?”

Great question. Modern birth control for women is possibly the most important invention of the last century, and I’m very grateful for it. It’s also brutal. The side effects for many women include migraines, mood swings, decreased libido, depression, severe cramps, heavy bleeding, aneurysm — and that’s just a small fraction of them.

Discouragingly, a promising study on a new male contraceptive was canceled in large part due to… (wait for it)… side effects. To be clear, this list of side effects was about one-third as long as the known side effects for commonly used women’s contraception. There’s a lot to unpack in that story alone. I’ll simply point out that, as a society, we really don’t mind if women suffer, physically or mentally, as long as it makes things easier for men.

But, men, I’ve got good news. Even with the horrible side effects, women are (amazingly!) very willing to use birth control. Unfortunately, it’s harder to get than it should be, but that doesn’t keep women from trying. Birth control options for women require a doctor’s appointment — sometimes multiple doctor’s appointments — and a prescription. They’re not always free, and often not cheap. Some are actually trying to make female birth control options more expensive by allowing insurance companies to refuse to cover them. In addition, contraceptive options for women can’t be easily acquired at the last minute. In most cases, they don’t work instantly.

The pill requires consistent daily use and doesn’t leave much room for mistakes, forgetfulness, or unexpected disruptions to daily schedules. Again, the side effects can be brutal — and not just in rare cases. Despite the hassle and side effects, I’m still grateful for birth control. (Please don’t take it away.) But it’s critical to understand that women’s birth control isn’t simple or easy.

In contrast, let’s look at birth control for men — i.e., condoms. They’re readily available at all hours, inexpensive, convenient, and don’t require a prescription. They’re effective and work on demand, instantly. They don’t cause aneurysms, mood swings, or debilitating cramps. Men can keep them stocked up just in case, so they’re always prepared. They can be easily used at the last minute. I mean, condoms are magic! So much easier than birth control options for women.

As a bonus, most women are totally on board with condoms. They keep us from getting STDs. They don’t lessen our pleasure during sex or prevent us from climaxing. The best part? Cleanup is so much easier — no waddling to the toilet as **** drips down our legs.

So why would there ever be unwanted pregnancies? Why don’t men just use condoms every time they have sex? Seems so simple, right?

Oh. I remember. Men don’t love condoms. In fact, it’s very, very common for men to pressure women to have sex without a condom. It’s also not unheard of for men to remove the condom during sex without the women’s permission or knowledge. (Pro tip: That’s assault.)

Why would men want to have sex without a condom? Because, for the precious minutes when they’re penetrating their partner, not wearing a condom gives them more pleasure. So… that would mean some men are willing to risk getting a woman pregnant — which means literally risking her life, her health, her social status, her relationships, and her career — so they can experience a few minutes of slightly increased pleasure. Is this for real?

Yes. Yes, it is.

Pregnancies happen when men have an orgasm. Unwanted pregnancies happen when men orgasm irresponsibly.

Imagine a pleasure scale, with pain beginning at zero and going down into the negatives. A good back-scratch falls at 5, and an orgasm without a condom is a 10. Where would sex with a condom fall? A 7 or 8? So, it’s not that sex with a condom is not pleasurable, it’s just not aspleasurable. An 8 instead of a 10.

Let me emphasize that again: Men regularly choose to put women at massive risk in order to experience a few minutes of slightly increased pleasure.

For the truly condom-averse, men also have a non-condom, always-ready birth control option built right in: the pull-out. It doesn’t protect against STDs, it’s an easy joke, and it’s far from perfect. However, it’s 96% effective if done correctly, and 78% effective in practice (because it’s often not done correctly).

Still, many men who resist wearing condoms never learn how to pull out correctly. Apparently, it’s slightly more pleasurable to climax inside a vagina than, say, on their partner’s stomach. Once again, men are willing to risk the life, health, and well-being of women in order to experience a tiny bit more pleasure for roughly five seconds during orgasm.

Think of the choice men are making here. Honestly, I’m not as mad as I should be about this, because we’ve trained men from birth to disassociate sex and pregnancy. We’ve taught them that their pleasure is of utmost importance.

As a general rule, men get women pregnant by having an orgasm. Yes, there are exceptions — it’s possible for sperm to show up in pre-ejaculate — but in most cases, getting a woman pregnant is a pleasurable act for men. But men can get a woman pregnant without her feeling any pleasure at all. It’s even possible for a man to impregnate a woman while causing her excruciating pain, trauma, or horror.

In contrast, a woman can have nonstop orgasms with or without a partner and never once get herself pregnant. A woman’s orgasm has literally nothing to do with pregnancy or fertility — her ****oris exists simply for pleasure, not for creating new humans. No matter how many orgasms she has, they won’t make her pregnant.

Pregnancies happen when men have an orgasm. Unwanted pregnancies happen when men orgasm irresponsibly.

A woman can be the sluttiest slut in the entire world, she can love having orgasms all day and all night long, and she will never find herself with an unwanted pregnancy unless a man shows up and ejaculates irresponsibly. Though our society tends to villainize female pleasure, women’s enjoyment of sex does not equal unwanted pregnancy and abortion. Men’s enjoyment of sex and irresponsible ejaculations do.

Let’s move to the topic of responsibility. Often, men don’t know, don’t ask, and don’t think to ask if they’ve caused a pregnancy. There are often zero consequences for men who cause unwanted pregnancies.

If the woman decides to have an abortion, the man may never even know he caused an unwanted pregnancy with his irresponsible ejaculation. If the woman decides to have the baby, or put the baby up for adoption, the man may never know he caused an unwanted pregnancy with his irresponsible ejaculation either. He may never know there’s now a child walking around with 50% of his DNA.

If the woman does tell him he caused an unwanted pregnancy and that she’s having the baby, the closest thing to a consequence for him is child support. Our current child support system is a well-known joke. Only about 61 percent of required payments by men are actually made, and there are little to no repercussions for skipping out. In some states, failing to pay child support doesn’t even affect your credit.

If a man does pay child support, it doesn’t come close to what is required by a woman in the case of an unwanted pregnancy.

Let’s talk about abortion. When the topic comes up, men might think: Abortion is horrible; women should not have abortions. Never once do they consider the man who caused the unwanted pregnancy.

If you actually care about reducing or eliminating the number of abortions in our country, simply hold men accountable for their actions.

If we’re discussing abortion law — and not how to hold men accountable for irresponsible ejaculations, and the unwanted pregnancies caused by them — we’re wasting our time. Shift the conversation. Stop protesting at clinics. Stop shaming women. Stop debating whether or not to overturn abortion laws. If you actually care about reducing or eliminating the number of abortions in our country, simply hold men accountable for their actions.

What would that look like? A real and immediate consequence for men who cause an unwanted pregnancy. What kind of consequence would make sense? Should it be as harsh, painful, nauseating, scarring, expensive, risky, and life-altering…

… as forcing a woman to go through a nine-month unwanted pregnancy?

If you consider abortion to be murder, consider this thought experiment: Would you be on board with having a handful of men castrated to prevent 600,000 murders each year? If this argument sounds too provocative, could it be that many of us have a hard time wrapping our heads around a physical punishment for men? We seem to be more than fine with physical punishments for women. Perhaps we care more about policing women’s bodies, morality, and sexuality than we do about reducing or eliminating abortions.

Here’s another prevention idea: All males in the U.S. could get a vasectomy when they are ready to be sexually active. Vasectomies are very safe, highly reversible, and about as invasive as a woman getting an IUD implanted. In most cases, there’s some soreness afterwards for about 24 hours, but that’s pretty much it for side effects. (Take a moment to remember that female contraception options, used by millions of women in our country and billions across the world, have well-known side effects which can be brutal and severe — and yes, also include soreness.) If and when a man becomes a responsible adult, finds a mate, and wants to have a baby, the vasectomy can be reversed and then redone once the childbearing stage is over. Each man can bank their sperm before the vasectomy, just in case.

Don’t like my ideas? That’s fine. I’m sure there are better ideas, and I challenge you to suggest your own. My point is we need to stop focusing on women if we’re trying to get rid of abortions. Think of abortion as the “cure” for an unwanted pregnancy. To stop abortions, we need to prevent the “disease” — meaning, the unwanted pregnancy itself. And the only way to do that is by focusing on men, because irresponsible ejaculations by men cause 100% of unwanted pregnancy.

Ask yourselves: What would it take for you to value the life of your sexual partner more than your own temporary pleasure or convenience?

If you’re a man, what would it take for you to never again ejaculate irresponsibly? A loss of money, rights, or freedoms? Physical pain? Ask yourselves: What would it take for you to value the life of your sexual partner more than your own temporary pleasure or convenience?

Men mostly run our government, and men mostly make our laws. In theory, men could eliminate — or drastically reduce — abortions within months without ever touching an abortion law or even mentioning women. They’d simply need to hold men accountable for irresponsible ejaculations, and legislate accordingly.

To reduce or eliminate abortions, stop attempting to control women’s bodies and sexuality. Because unwanted pregnancies are caused by men.

44K claps

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WRITTEN BY

Gabrielle Blair

Sent from my moto z3 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
I just read that Trump is against this.
Says that he believes abortions should be allowed in cases of rape and incest.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
I answered your question, please answer mine.

Do you believe the following?
  • One microsecond before conception, you believe it is okay to terminate the egg and the sperm.
  • One microsecond after the sperm fertilizes the egg, terminating the pregnancy is morally equivalent to murdering a healthy 16 year old girl.

If your answer is "no" I dub you "pro choice"

If your answer is "yes" I credit you for an intellectually honest position.

If "yes" could you explain how this slight molecular rearrangement that happens in 2 microseconds aligns to your sense of morality

Thank you.

The discussion her, and in America in general, never seems to advance to the point of asking "at what point". That's where the big question should be answered IMO. It is a collective decision lying in grey area, but I think we can be grown ups and at least attempt to put together that definition like most other developed countries have.

We are extremely immature with our politics here. Dogmatic AF (that means and fanatical, colton).
 
As I posted in another thread (can't make the link work)

Men Cause 100% of Unwanted Pregnancies

Our conversation about abortion places the burden of responsibility on women. I argue men are the root cause.

As a mother of six and a Mormon, I have a good understanding of arguments surrounding abortion, religious and otherwise. When I hear men discussing women’s reproductive rights, I’m often left with the thought that they have zero interest in stopping abortion.

If you want to prevent abortion, you need to prevent unwanted pregnancies. Men seem unable (or unwilling) to admit that they cause 100% of them.

I realize that’s a bold statement. You’re likely thinking, “Wait. It takes two to tango!” While I fully agree with you in the case of intentional pregnancies, I argue that all unwanted pregnancies are caused by the irresponsible ejaculations of men. All of them.

Don’t believe me?

Let’s start with this: A woman’s egg is only fertile for about two days each month. Yes, there are exceptions, because nature. But one egg which is fertile two days each month is the baseline. And those fertile eggs are produced for a limited number of years. This means, on average, women are fertile for about 24 days per year.

But men are fertile 365 days a year. In fact, if you’re a man who ejaculates multiple times a day, you could cause multiple pregnancies daily. In theory, a man could cause 1000+ unwanted pregnancies in just one year. While it’s true that sperm gets crappier as men age, it doesn’t have a fertility expiration date; men can cause unwanted pregnancies from puberty until death. So, starting with basic fertility stats and the calendar, it’s easy to see that men are the issue here.

As a society, we really don’t mind if women suffer, physically or mentally, as long as it makes things easier for men.

“But what about birth control?” you might ask. “ If a woman can manage to figure out how to get an abortion, surely she can use birth control to avoid unwanted pregnancy, right?”

Great question. Modern birth control for women is possibly the most important invention of the last century, and I’m very grateful for it. It’s also brutal. The side effects for many women include migraines, mood swings, decreased libido, depression, severe cramps, heavy bleeding, aneurysm — and that’s just a small fraction of them.

Discouragingly, a promising study on a new male contraceptive was canceled in large part due to… (wait for it)… side effects. To be clear, this list of side effects was about one-third as long as the known side effects for commonly used women’s contraception. There’s a lot to unpack in that story alone. I’ll simply point out that, as a society, we really don’t mind if women suffer, physically or mentally, as long as it makes things easier for men.

But, men, I’ve got good news. Even with the horrible side effects, women are (amazingly!) very willing to use birth control. Unfortunately, it’s harder to get than it should be, but that doesn’t keep women from trying. Birth control options for women require a doctor’s appointment — sometimes multiple doctor’s appointments — and a prescription. They’re not always free, and often not cheap. Some are actually trying to make female birth control options more expensive by allowing insurance companies to refuse to cover them. In addition, contraceptive options for women can’t be easily acquired at the last minute. In most cases, they don’t work instantly.

The pill requires consistent daily use and doesn’t leave much room for mistakes, forgetfulness, or unexpected disruptions to daily schedules. Again, the side effects can be brutal — and not just in rare cases. Despite the hassle and side effects, I’m still grateful for birth control. (Please don’t take it away.) But it’s critical to understand that women’s birth control isn’t simple or easy.

In contrast, let’s look at birth control for men — i.e., condoms. They’re readily available at all hours, inexpensive, convenient, and don’t require a prescription. They’re effective and work on demand, instantly. They don’t cause aneurysms, mood swings, or debilitating cramps. Men can keep them stocked up just in case, so they’re always prepared. They can be easily used at the last minute. I mean, condoms are magic! So much easier than birth control options for women.

As a bonus, most women are totally on board with condoms. They keep us from getting STDs. They don’t lessen our pleasure during sex or prevent us from climaxing. The best part? Cleanup is so much easier — no waddling to the toilet as **** drips down our legs.

So why would there ever be unwanted pregnancies? Why don’t men just use condoms every time they have sex? Seems so simple, right?

Oh. I remember. Men don’t love condoms. In fact, it’s very, very common for men to pressure women to have sex without a condom. It’s also not unheard of for men to remove the condom during sex without the women’s permission or knowledge. (Pro tip: That’s assault.)

Why would men want to have sex without a condom? Because, for the precious minutes when they’re penetrating their partner, not wearing a condom gives them more pleasure. So… that would mean some men are willing to risk getting a woman pregnant — which means literally risking her life, her health, her social status, her relationships, and her career — so they can experience a few minutes of slightly increased pleasure. Is this for real?

Yes. Yes, it is.

Pregnancies happen when men have an orgasm. Unwanted pregnancies happen when men orgasm irresponsibly.

Imagine a pleasure scale, with pain beginning at zero and going down into the negatives. A good back-scratch falls at 5, and an orgasm without a condom is a 10. Where would sex with a condom fall? A 7 or 8? So, it’s not that sex with a condom is not pleasurable, it’s just not aspleasurable. An 8 instead of a 10.

Let me emphasize that again: Men regularly choose to put women at massive risk in order to experience a few minutes of slightly increased pleasure.

For the truly condom-averse, men also have a non-condom, always-ready birth control option built right in: the pull-out. It doesn’t protect against STDs, it’s an easy joke, and it’s far from perfect. However, it’s 96% effective if done correctly, and 78% effective in practice (because it’s often not done correctly).

Still, many men who resist wearing condoms never learn how to pull out correctly. Apparently, it’s slightly more pleasurable to climax inside a vagina than, say, on their partner’s stomach. Once again, men are willing to risk the life, health, and well-being of women in order to experience a tiny bit more pleasure for roughly five seconds during orgasm.

Think of the choice men are making here. Honestly, I’m not as mad as I should be about this, because we’ve trained men from birth to disassociate sex and pregnancy. We’ve taught them that their pleasure is of utmost importance.

As a general rule, men get women pregnant by having an orgasm. Yes, there are exceptions — it’s possible for sperm to show up in pre-ejaculate — but in most cases, getting a woman pregnant is a pleasurable act for men. But men can get a woman pregnant without her feeling any pleasure at all. It’s even possible for a man to impregnate a woman while causing her excruciating pain, trauma, or horror.

In contrast, a woman can have nonstop orgasms with or without a partner and never once get herself pregnant. A woman’s orgasm has literally nothing to do with pregnancy or fertility — her ****oris exists simply for pleasure, not for creating new humans. No matter how many orgasms she has, they won’t make her pregnant.

Pregnancies happen when men have an orgasm. Unwanted pregnancies happen when men orgasm irresponsibly.

A woman can be the sluttiest slut in the entire world, she can love having orgasms all day and all night long, and she will never find herself with an unwanted pregnancy unless a man shows up and ejaculates irresponsibly. Though our society tends to villainize female pleasure, women’s enjoyment of sex does not equal unwanted pregnancy and abortion. Men’s enjoyment of sex and irresponsible ejaculations do.

Let’s move to the topic of responsibility. Often, men don’t know, don’t ask, and don’t think to ask if they’ve caused a pregnancy. There are often zero consequences for men who cause unwanted pregnancies.

If the woman decides to have an abortion, the man may never even know he caused an unwanted pregnancy with his irresponsible ejaculation. If the woman decides to have the baby, or put the baby up for adoption, the man may never know he caused an unwanted pregnancy with his irresponsible ejaculation either. He may never know there’s now a child walking around with 50% of his DNA.

If the woman does tell him he caused an unwanted pregnancy and that she’s having the baby, the closest thing to a consequence for him is child support. Our current child support system is a well-known joke. Only about 61 percent of required payments by men are actually made, and there are little to no repercussions for skipping out. In some states, failing to pay child support doesn’t even affect your credit.

If a man does pay child support, it doesn’t come close to what is required by a woman in the case of an unwanted pregnancy.

Let’s talk about abortion. When the topic comes up, men might think: Abortion is horrible; women should not have abortions. Never once do they consider the man who caused the unwanted pregnancy.

If you actually care about reducing or eliminating the number of abortions in our country, simply hold men accountable for their actions.

If we’re discussing abortion law — and not how to hold men accountable for irresponsible ejaculations, and the unwanted pregnancies caused by them — we’re wasting our time. Shift the conversation. Stop protesting at clinics. Stop shaming women. Stop debating whether or not to overturn abortion laws. If you actually care about reducing or eliminating the number of abortions in our country, simply hold men accountable for their actions.

What would that look like? A real and immediate consequence for men who cause an unwanted pregnancy. What kind of consequence would make sense? Should it be as harsh, painful, nauseating, scarring, expensive, risky, and life-altering…

… as forcing a woman to go through a nine-month unwanted pregnancy?

If you consider abortion to be murder, consider this thought experiment: Would you be on board with having a handful of men castrated to prevent 600,000 murders each year? If this argument sounds too provocative, could it be that many of us have a hard time wrapping our heads around a physical punishment for men? We seem to be more than fine with physical punishments for women. Perhaps we care more about policing women’s bodies, morality, and sexuality than we do about reducing or eliminating abortions.

Here’s another prevention idea: All males in the U.S. could get a vasectomy when they are ready to be sexually active. Vasectomies are very safe, highly reversible, and about as invasive as a woman getting an IUD implanted. In most cases, there’s some soreness afterwards for about 24 hours, but that’s pretty much it for side effects. (Take a moment to remember that female contraception options, used by millions of women in our country and billions across the world, have well-known side effects which can be brutal and severe — and yes, also include soreness.) If and when a man becomes a responsible adult, finds a mate, and wants to have a baby, the vasectomy can be reversed and then redone once the childbearing stage is over. Each man can bank their sperm before the vasectomy, just in case.

Don’t like my ideas? That’s fine. I’m sure there are better ideas, and I challenge you to suggest your own. My point is we need to stop focusing on women if we’re trying to get rid of abortions. Think of abortion as the “cure” for an unwanted pregnancy. To stop abortions, we need to prevent the “disease” — meaning, the unwanted pregnancy itself. And the only way to do that is by focusing on men, because irresponsible ejaculations by men cause 100% of unwanted pregnancy.

Ask yourselves: What would it take for you to value the life of your sexual partner more than your own temporary pleasure or convenience?

If you’re a man, what would it take for you to never again ejaculate irresponsibly? A loss of money, rights, or freedoms? Physical pain? Ask yourselves: What would it take for you to value the life of your sexual partner more than your own temporary pleasure or convenience?

Men mostly run our government, and men mostly make our laws. In theory, men could eliminate — or drastically reduce — abortions within months without ever touching an abortion law or even mentioning women. They’d simply need to hold men accountable for irresponsible ejaculations, and legislate accordingly.

To reduce or eliminate abortions, stop attempting to control women’s bodies and sexuality. Because unwanted pregnancies are caused by men.

44K claps

[https://cdn-images-1]

WRITTEN BY

Gabrielle Blair

Sent from my moto z3 using JazzFanz mobile app

I'm with you on 90% of this...however, don't you think some of the responsibility should rest on women, who admittedly bear the majority of the burden/risk. It feels off to put all of the responsibility, and therefore all of the control, on the male partner. Women have more power than that and therefore have more control, which they should not cede. Leaving it up to the man to wear a sleeve, pull out or otherwise avoid the unwanted pregnancy puts it out of the woman's control and into his.
 
I'm with you on 90% of this...however, don't you think some of the responsibility should rest on women, who admittedly bear the majority of the burden/risk. It feels off to put all of the responsibility, and therefore all of the control, on the male partner. Women have more power than that and therefore have more control, which they should not cede. Leaving it up to the man to wear a sleeve, pull out or otherwise avoid the unwanted pregnancy puts it out of the woman's control and into his.

The point is irresponsible ejaculations, not the entire burden of birth control being the responsibility of men. I consider it irresponsible to not be aware of what birth control methods are in play and how they are affecting their partners. I don't believe the point is that women should concede their fertility decisions to men. But there is nowhere near equality in birth control issues.
 
The point is irresponsible ejaculations, not the entire burden of birth control being the responsibility of men. I consider it irresponsible to not be aware of what birth control methods are in play and how they are affecting their partners. I don't believe the point is that women should concede their fertility decisions to men. But there is nowhere near equality in birth control issues.
It's incredibly obvious to me how different our cultures view of sexual health would be if men were the ones to bear children. The right to an abortion would top the right to bear arms imo.
 
The standard has been viability because that is when the fetus can survive on its own. Otherwise, it's part of the woman's body. The potential for life begins with fertilization and even with a heartbeat, the fetus is still only a potential human being until it can live outside the mother's body. You could say every separate sperm and egg has the potential for life, too. It's not an easy decision; it comes down to belief, religion really, when you want to believe life begins, and I put the emphasis on want, which to me puts the onus on the woman who carries the fetus. It shouldn't be up to the state or what someone else believes.
 
The point is irresponsible ejaculations, not the entire burden of birth control being the responsibility of men. I consider it irresponsible to not be aware of what birth control methods are in play and how they are affecting their partners. I don't believe the point is that women should concede their fertility decisions to men. But there is nowhere near equality in birth control issues.

Agreed.
 
The standard has been viability because that is when the fetus can survive on its own.

But viability is really a question of technology. Viability is based in part on what support systems are available to the fetus after exit from the womb. That is why these new bills are trying to force the Supreme Court to rule on the heart beat issue. If they can get the courts to recognize a fetus with a heart beat as a individual with rights, it could change everything. There is no guarantee the court will hear the cases though. More than likely this will stretch through the election cycle. Look for a spin that Dems are baby killers, chock full of anecdotes of late term abortions, and "viable" fetuses (feti?) being snuffed out, with the focus on the consequences of unwanted pregnancies, rather than the irresponsible ejaculations that caused them.
 
People who are for these laws are against freedom of choice. The right who is constantly complaining how their rights are be trampled on, certainly love trampling on a women's right to choose what happens to her body. Trying to defend this as a moral issue is hypocritical and unconstitutional. You know that thing called freedom of religion. The gov't does not have a right to impose the Christian's belief system on others. Everyone has a right to believe what they want but when you start imposing your "moral" beliefs on others then you cannot claim religious freedom as a right if you don't protect the right for everyone.
 
The discussion her, and in America in general, never seems to advance to the point of asking "at what point". That's where the big question should be answered IMO. It is a collective decision lying in grey area, but I think we can be grown ups and at least attempt to put together that definition like most other developed countries have.

We are extremely immature with our politics here. Dogmatic AF (that means and fanatical, colton).

Dis guy's right. Pause all the parentage, ownership, financial, social questions, and get together to discuss an initial line.

People like me believe life is sentience(yeah, barbaric, **** you too). Others when pain can be observed. Others still believe the moment of conception. We haven't defined a common bar yet. That needs to happen if we're going to make true progress.
 
Dis guy's right. Pause all the parentage, ownership, financial, social questions, and get together to discuss an initial line.

People like me believe life is sentience(yeah, barbaric, **** you too). Others when pain can be observed. Others still believe the moment of conception. We haven't defined a common bar yet. That needs to happen if we're going to make true progress.

That’s never going to happen. Will you convinces a life begins and conception advocate? No

Will they convince you? No

There we have it. So we muddle our way forward pissing everyone off and calling people baby killers, sexist and all the rest.
 
That’s never going to happen. Will you convinces a life begins and conception advocate? No

Will they convince you? No

There we have it. So we muddle our way forward pissing everyone off and calling people baby killers, sexist and all the rest.

I agree neither side will be convinced or swayed of an ultimate truth.

I want to believe everyone can sign off on a middle ground, and make their own decisions according to that middle ground from there.
 
I agree neither side will be convinced or swayed of an ultimate truth.

I want to believe everyone can sign off on a middle ground, and make their own decisions according to that middle ground from there.

It sounds good but have you seen any sign of that?

Those that feel abortion is murder still see murder being allowed.

Those that are on the other extreme still see sexism and the evils of men.

So, we end up with talk of abortions at atms if sexist men were the ones getting pregnant and “executing babies” for anytime an abortion happens.

And tbh, neither side side wants a solution. They want it their way.

And we have a fundamental lack of leadership in this country. The parties have become ugly, stupid representations of each sides fringes.

Ok I’m done.

Back to sexist baby killing.
 
And tbh, neither side side wants a solution. They want it their way.

I wish that with big nation wide mainstream issues like this that we would use democracy more.

Do a Nationwide vote. If my side loses then I can live with that knowing that I'm in the minority.

I think we should do the same thing with marijuana legalization. Let America decide through a vote.

Gay marriage, gun control, etc etc.
None of that electoral college **** either.

And since society changes and evolves maybe we do another vote on those types of things every 10 years or so.

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