The Jazz lost two late first round picks and a handful of scrubs for a guy who put up a 9.2 BPM under unique circumstances and it's the worst trade in Jazz history.
Alex Caruso
- Thread starter Handlogten's Heros
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LoPo
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#1 - that was New Orleans
#2 - you're lying about the actual trade: August 5, 1976: The New Orleans Jazz traded a 1977 1st round draft pick (Kenny Carr), a 1978 1st round draft pick (Freeman Williams), a 1979 1st round draft pick (Magic Johnson) and a 1980 2nd round draft pick (Sam Worthen) to the Los Angeles Lakers for a 1977 2nd round draft pick (Essie Hollis) and a 1978 1st round draft pick (Jack Givens). This exchange was arranged as compensation for Utah signing veteran free agent Gail Goodrich on 19 July 1976.
#3 - the entire league, scouting, finances, etc. were different in those days.
#4 - Conley is a questionable fit for his price BEFORE we even consider what we gave up to get him.
LoPo
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Stats can always be misconstrued to fit a narrative.
Yes, a 9.2 BPM can be misconstrued lmfao. Mike Conley was next level in the Denver series. Yall are just being blind and looking to make someone the scapegoat. You are among the dumbest posters on the board and it consistently shows.
Jazzmix
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Tucker's BBIQ is half of Caruso's.
Handlogten's Heros
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AC is a good role player on a championship quality team... ain't trying to worship homeboy. He had a 3-4 minute run in the game yesterday that displayed so many things that we need and lack. The defense ain't nothing new... he's been good on that end for a while.
If yall don't appreciate it then its your loss.
If yall don't appreciate it then its your loss.
jom2003
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yeah guarding one of the best offensively players on opponents team will probably result in worse ISO defense numbers than getting assigned one of the worst offensive players on opponent's team. What an amazing discovery
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jom2003
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yeah, definitely would do the same so we could improve this team so much that we go from a horrendous season of 61% win/5th in the west/first round exit to the marvelous 61% win/6th in the west/first round exit. A franchise defining trade for sure.
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LoPo
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See Cy - stat manipulation. What was that number in Game 3 and what was that number in Game 7? He shot out of his mind in Game 3 which was a game everybody played well and we blew out Denver.
Let me use another example. If there were 2 NFL games where a backup RB ran for 160 yards, people would be like, wow, he's good. But when you break it down, the RB ran for 120 yards in a blowout win that was decided by halftime. He got garbage yards. In the other game, he ran for a meager 40 yards. His agent will build up his average, but the truth is in the situation.
That was Conley's 5 games against Denver. He had one lights out game 3, two average games, one below average game and Game 7 where he cost us the game due to his terrible shooting, inability to defend anybody and inability to create the offense we needed. So sure, Conley's stats looked really, really good, but they mostly applied to one phenomenal performance and only solid performances otherwise.
Don had to guard the guy Conley was supposed to be guarding while running the offense Conley was supposed to be running. Don simply didn't have the gas to do both.
jom2003
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you mean assets that included multiple young players who could improve over time and locked up with us on a cheap deal for years to come?
The rookie we selected with the first round had we decided to keep it would most definitely suck and won't play much, instead of averaging 12+6 on 61% shooting/36% from deep in 22min of play. SURE.
But what about next season? 2022 season? 2023?
Is that rookie just gonna stop improving and sign a min to play elsewhere after spending a couple of seasons with us like a 34-yr-old who's one step away from retirement?
Even the Grayson Allen that everyone despised, went from 38%/32%/75% a season ago to 46%/40%/86% and has provided some solid minutes to a team that were literally one game away from making the playoffs. Just tell me why couldn't he have helped us this season and even more so in the next couple of seasons as he keep improving like a normal 24-yr-old?
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IDK about that. Caruso has just played the same role his entire life. He's a no offense athlete who plays hard on D. Tucker has to make a big adjustment. Hard to compare IQ's.
jom2003
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Before taking a gamble you always have to make a risk vs benefit analysis. and risk far outweighs the benefit in the Conley trade. Dude's never won anything in his career, is currently a borderline top 15 PG in this league and is on a very overpriced contract that would likely result in us having to pay the luxury tax if we wanna continue improving this team. Trading Crowder isn't a bad idea, but Conley just isn't worth it.
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Beer
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The fact that we are arguing over Crowder is laughable and stupid. You can't just hope his 20 good games a year just happen to lineup in the playoffs. The Heat got lucky but Jae has shown who he is and betting on him is a bad idea.
Beer
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Saying Tucker is better than Caruso is stupid. Caruso isn't great, but he has been a functional NBA guy for a minute and Rajon never ever ever has been. I get he can jump higher and is stronger but does he help your team more? I'd be willing to say not even close.
Handlogten's Heros
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Mike was really good in the playoffs. He wasn't the reason we lost. BPM is a weird *** way to measure it when you are looking at 5 games. I mean BPM for the full season Mike was sixth on our team. TB and Royce were higher. Hassan Whiteside was top 25 in the league for the season.
Also, haven't you been trumpeting about small sample sizes when looking at Jae's shooting or our record without Mike? Mike shot the **** out of the ball for 5 games and was very good... his TS% for the season was lower than Jae's for the year... both had bad starts in new situations.
We aren't trading him so we will get to prove it out over another year. If I had a time machine I definitely wouldn't do the trade again... I doubt DL would too.
jom2003
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I'm not even arguing with you over Crowder. He sucks. But Conley isn't the solution either. Dude's only played 47 games for us and 22 of which he shot below 40% including a 1-16 and a 0-7 performance and all you wanna argue is how Crowder's streaky shooting hurts the team.
jom2003
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"really good in the playoffs" you mean that 5 game stretch, 1 of which he shot 2-13 that also happened to be our biggest game? i thought Conley homers cried "small sample" when we blasted him for his ****** performance yet the point they are trying to make is over a 5-game sample size.
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It's stupid? What has Caruso shown to make such a claim stupid? Yes, Rayjon Tucker, a rookie hasnt really had a chance to prove much yet. Tucker has shown that he is committed to making hustle plays and trying on defense.
Tucker also hasnt been in the NBA for the last handful of years getting backup minutes on a **** *** team who didnt really care too much about winning games until this year. It's a projection and it's not a ridiculous one to make. I'm not comparing Tucker to some seasoned vet who has his place in NBA rotations cemented.
*Not to mention Tucker came in half-way during the season and hasnt had a training camp under Utah development*
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I'm not saying he was as good as 9.2 BPM says, but you don't get that by being bad or a net negative in the series, like some are suggesting.
And unless there was some better trade out there, he still does it. What's the alternative? Signing Rubio again and developing Grayson Allen?