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"Alternative Facts": Trump's War on the Media

DutchJazzer said:
ok lets have a reasonable discusion then!

this "alternative facts" thing started because of the inauguration crowd right?!?!?

do you admit that cnn and others manipulated the video images to show the crowd from before the inauguration started?

"alternative facts" is wrongly used, because what cnn said was not fact, what trumpteam said is also not fact.


so reasonably can you see both sides are at fault? or ar eu just jumping on the anti trump bandwagon? there are reasonable grievances you can take with trump.
but cnn under-exegerate the crowd size. and trump exegerated.

you cant pick on one side in this battle. just call em BOTH OUT!
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In this particular instance, no, I don't think the media misrepresented the size of Trump's crowd. I thought a decent analysis can be found here. As noted, the lower angle photos, not the aerial photos, will show a compression of the crowd, and may convey a denser crowd as a result, but I think it's explained better here:

https://www.chicagonow.com/dry-it-i...e-inauguration-crowd-size-and-why-it-matters/

I'm not sure if it's the above article, but I saw an estimate, based maybe on a poll, that 70-80% of Trump supporters believed Spicer, not the media. Which may have been the point, or reason, for slinging the BS by Spicer in the first place. The lie would have forced Trump supporters to chose between what Spicer said and what their eyes told them. The gamble being that most would side with Spicer and reinforce the belief that the mainstream media is "fake news". It also creates doubt over exactly what constitutes fact. If there was a method to the madness here, it may lie in that direction. Because, certainly, on the surface, it's absolutely inconsequential as to who had a bigger crowd.
 
Red said:
In this particular instance, no, I don't think the media misrepresented the size of Trump's crowd. I thought a decent analysis can be found here. As noted, the lower angle photos, not the aerial photos, will show a compression of the crowd, and may convey a denser crowd as a result, but I think it's explained better here:

https://www.chicagonow.com/dry-it-i...e-inauguration-crowd-size-and-why-it-matters/

I'm not sure if it's the above article, but I saw an estimate, based maybe on a poll, that 70-80% of Trump supporters believed Spicer, not the media. Which may have been the point, or reason, for slinging the BS by Spicer in the first place. The lie would have forced Trump supporters to chose between what Spicer said and what their eyes told them. The gamble being that most would side with Spicer and reinforce the belief that the mainstream media is "fake news". It also creates doubt over exactly what constitutes fact. If there was a method to the madness here, it may lie in that direction. Because, certainly, on the surface, it's absolutely inconsequential as to who had a bigger crowd.
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You're obsession with this is running beyond deep.
Petty Petty Petty party raids.
Go have a cocktail.
Go to some Mexican resort.
Visit some friends.
Anything but petty.
 
Red said:
"This account of Trump’s tumultuous first days in office comes from interviews with nearly a dozen senior White House officials and other Trump advisers and confidants, some of whom spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe private conversations and moments".

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...3_story.html?tid=a_inl&utm_term=.22008455bf44

Aww, the poor baby!
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Just read this and it is chuck full of assumptions and speculations. Now granted there was some truth there. I'll give you that. But this is hardly the damning piece you think it is. Truths like the dumb crowd size fight.

Speculations like Conway being out of favor due to her office location.
 
Red said:
I just wish my pro-Trump friends would see the handwriting on the wall here.

A Press Secretary who warns the press that they will be held accountable. Yet they told the truth about crowd size.

Kellyanne Conway warning Chuck Todd that if he continues to say Spicer spoke falsehoods that "maybe we need to rethink our relationship" to the media.

And the use of doublespeak, shades of 1984. A falsehood is just an "alternative fact".

Look, we are all in this together, regardless of where we fall on a political spectrum. Surely we can all agree a free press is essential in a free society. Can we afford to let Trump rule without any accountability? That seems to be what this "war on the media"(Trump's own words to the the CIA) represents. He stated he was engaged in "a war against the media". People need to understand why. To discredit the media to the point nobody will trust a word they say and he will have a freer rein. I do believe we need to wake up to that fact.

People have allowed "fake news" to be a term applied to the entire mainstream media, whenever they display a liberal bent. But it is the alt right spreading fake news. Trump would like nothing better then to elevate Brietbart News to the top of the charts.

I hope the blinders would fall away from some eyes here...
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I agree we should have free press. I also think we should have free speech and the right to defend yourself. There are liberal news outlets out there that are hell bent on destroying Trump and making his life as difficult as possible. Thats undeniable. So I have no problem with Trump defending himself. Lets not forget the all mighty great Obama constantly attacked Fox news. Thats a fact. I didnt see the left going crazy over freedom of press then.

Seriously, I dont get why the left would actually expect the right to give a **** when the tables have turned.

Here is a an idea. How report fair and accurate news, then there wont be this fighting. Wow, what a concept eh?
 
Red said:
"This account of Trump’s tumultuous first days in office comes from interviews with nearly a dozen senior White House officials and other Trump advisers and confidants, some of whom spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe private conversations and moments".

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...3_story.html?tid=a_inl&utm_term=.22008455bf44

Aww, the poor baby!
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I would engage you in this discussion but your utter contempt for anything Donald Trump tells me it would be futile. I do appreciate the chuckles I get from it though. The media got called out, by Trump(and the American people for that matter) and **** the bed because of it. Anyone that can't acknowledge that isn't going to put forth a rational open discussion.
 
lol trump is rubbing the media's face in a pile of doo doo.

but also ****s up by having wrong date. maybe he is doing this on purpose so media rags on him for that. i mean wow another screw up. the war continues


Trump hangs portrait of inauguration crowd in WH press hall
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C283HYcXEAIBDlq.jpg


resident Trump on Tuesday shared an image of a panoramic portrait illustrating the size of his inauguration crowd that has been put on display in the White House press hall.

Trump tweeted a photo of the portrait, which was taken by Washington-based photographer Abbas Shirmohammadi, during Friday's inauguration ceremony.

Social media users quickly noted that the date on the photo incorrectly reads Jan. 21, rather than Jan. 20, when Trump took the oath of office on the steps of the Capitol.


Trump blasted the media during a speech at CIA headquarters on Saturday, accusing journalists of underreporting the number of people who attended his swearing in. The crowd, he said, stretched across the National Mall from the Capitol to the Washington Monument.

The White House doubled down on that claim later on Saturday, when press secretary Sean Spicer asserted that Trump had drawn “the largest audience to witness an inauguration, period. Both in person and around the globe."

Reporters quickly pointed out that both Trump and Spicer were incorrect, evidencing lower Metro ridership on Friday than during past inaugurations and digging up photos clearly showing large empty spaces in the inauguration crowd.

Federal law prohibits the National Parks Service, which oversees the National Mall, from issuing an official estimate of crowd size.

The photo shared by Trump on Tuesday now hangs in the press hallway connecting the workspaces of White House communications staff.
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No surprise at all that Trump ordered the director of the National Park Service to find inaugural photos that would prove the crowd was the largest in Inauguration Day history. And no surprise that there were no such photos. BTW, both the 2009 and 2017 photos were taken shortly before noon, and from the exact same angle atop the Washington monument:

https://www.bostonherald.com/entert...y_ordered_national_park_service_to_find_photo

And, the "brains" behind the throne, Steve Bannon has told the liberal press to "keep your mouths shut...".

https://mediamatters.org/blog/2017/01/26/steve-bannon-media-kneel-trump/215144

Fat chance:

https://mediamatters.org/video/2017...on-s-attacks-press-were-not-going-shut/215148

"CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: I would say no chance on that, Steve, buddy. But look, seriously, Steve Bannon is playing the role that he set out for himself. There is obviously some kind of strategy here, although it's hard for me to comprehend it because, you know, I operate in the truth and the fact-based universe.

But he's playing a strategy which involves creating straw men and women, creating an enemy out of the press, and then, you know, dividing, diverting, obfuscating while other things are going on. That's the only thing I can imagine -- obviously there are many other -- I want to say totalitarian regimes in the past which use this same kind of strategy.

And I mean -- if I was going to be funny, I'd say that he's angling for an order of merit from president Sisi, Putin, Erdogan and all the others. That is how they treat their press. That is what they believe the press should be, a compliant state propaganda unit in the service of the president.

It is not the tradition of the American press. So of course we're not going to shut up, and why should we? And what have we done wrong? And why should we be humiliated About what? The story was right, we reported the story, whatever it is, we got it right."
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BTW, with Trump and Bannon now in charge of the Voice of America, there's your state propaganda organ.
 
Fascists believe that liberal democracy is obsolete, and they regard the complete mobilization of society under a totalitarian one-party state as necessary to prepare a nation for armed conflict and to respond effectively to economic difficulties. Such a state is led by a strong leader—such as a dictator and a martial government composed of the members of the governing fascist party—to forge national unity and maintain a stable and orderly society.Fascism rejects assertions that violence is automatically negative in nature, and views political violence, war, and imperialism as means that can achieve national rejuvenation. Fascists advocate a mixed economy, with the principal goal of achieving autarky through protectionist and interventionist economic policies.
 
I will point out that the divide existed long before the President and his team came into power. He's not dividing anything. He is just playing into what is already there.

Not trying to defend them but they only deserve a small amount of the blame for that IMO.
 
Stoked said:
I will point out that the divide existed long before the President and his team came into power. He's not dividing anything. He is just playing into what is already there.

Not trying to defend them but they only deserve a small amount of the blame for that IMO.
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Agreed. This is why I suggested it would seem to make political sense to reach out to the "losers", as he likes to call anyone who doesn't agree with him:) I actually don't expect that would work where his personality is concerned, and there's the shame of it.
 
Stoked said:
I will point out that the divide existed long before the President and his team came into power. He's not dividing anything. He is just playing into what is already there.

Not trying to defend them but they only deserve a small amount of the blame for that IMO.
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and it would be the same thing if Hillary got elected. Either way we were going to have a high level of anger.
 
Revolution 9 said:
and it would be the same thing if Hillary got elected. Either way we were going to have a high level of anger.
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As we have already discussed.

Worst

Candidates

Ever
 
Red said:
Agreed. This is why I suggested it would seem to make political sense to reach out to the "losers", as he likes to call anyone who doesn't agree with him:) I actually don't expect that would work where his personality is concerned, and there's the shame of it.
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maybe the losers should stop blaming racism, bigotry, Russia, electoral college, e-mails & fake news and whatever. because if they keep on blaming they say trump is illegitimate and it is harder to REACH OUT
 
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