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Are presidents above the law?

colton said:
We're not dead.
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You are politically.

Trump is the second most popular president among republicans at 500 days. Your party leaders are afraid to stand up to Trump over the fear of being bounced in the primary (like Bob Bennett) where Trumper delegates reign supreme.

Moderate republicans either converted to Trumpism (as many in this thread have already described their families as being) or dead politically. Just look at how impotent your party leadership has become. Ted Cruz yesterday needed 18 seconds to respond to a question on whether or not a president could pardon himself (and even then his answer was concerning).

I'd love for moderate republicans to see a resurrection. They just might. But I don't see how they can the way the political structure is set up. Moderate voices just don't win delegate votes. Delegates are gatekeepers to elections. They decide who you will vote for. The only way I see moderates regaining is if there's a blue tsunami that wipes out the GOP. It might take a few cycles of moderates voting for democrats to drown out the radical delegates in order to regain control of their own party's primary.

I haven't seen that yet. Republicans seem to vote for crap (like Trump) as long as they have a R by their name. Hell, Roy Moore nearly won. He probably would've won in Utah had he ran.

You know the old saying? Mormons would vote for Satan over Christ in Utah as long as he had a R by his name.

I have yet to see statesmanship rise over partisanship. Hopefully your side proves me wrong.
 
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Bulletproof said:
I'm gonna put you on ignore for the rest off the week.
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Ok so let’s break this down.

1. I claim that Trunp’s abnormal use of pardon power is abuse and influencing the Mueller investigation potentially obstructing justice.

2. You claim that he’s not doing anything abnormal and that I’m overreacting.

3. I explain why his use of pardon power is abnormal.

4. You then concede to me that it’s abnormal but claim I’m not being intellectually honest.

5. I ask you to clarify.

6. You respond by saying that you’re done talking to me.

7. I am in a conversation with another poster and you butt in adding the highly productive comment that “I’m the most petty poster on the board.”

8. I remind you that you were done with me.

9. You respond by saying that it’s a different subject therefore inferring that you’re not done talking to me just that you’d like to discuss that other subject.

10. I ask you to explain what the subject changed to so I can understand what we are supposed to be talking about since I know you wouldn’t ever just butt into a conversation to merely insult someone. After all, that would be majorly petty, right?

11. You threaten to block me.

Oh no please don’t. Anything but that. I’m certainly getting so much out of these exchanges. Please, don’t block me!

Whatever will I do?
 
The Thriller said:
In all seriousness how does the gop regain moderation? How does it take its party back from trumpers?
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The Trumpers are going to have to lose a bunch of elections. If Trumpian candidates continue to win primaries and proceed to get wallopped by Democrats eventually the GOP will correct itself. I think it will take a very very long time however.
 
The Thriller said:
In all seriousness how does the gop regain moderation? How does it take its party back from trumpers?
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Well, let's hope it starts with Mueller recommending prosecution in a couple of months based on his investigative findings, then Trump getting impeached.
 
The Thriller said:
You are politically.

Trump is the second most popular president among republicans at 500 days. Your party leaders are afraid to stand up to Trump over the fear of being bounced in the primary (like Bob Bennett) where Trumper delegates reign supreme.

Moderate republicans either converted to Trumpism (as many in this thread have already described their families as being) or dead politically. Just look at how impotent your party leadership has become. Ted Cruz yesterday needed 18 seconds to respond to a question on whether or not a president could pardon himself (and even then his answer was concerning).

I'd love for moderate republicans to see a resurrection. They just might. But I don't see how they can the way the political structure is set up. Moderate voices just don't win delegate votes. Delegates are gatekeepers to elections. They decide who you will vote for. The only way I see moderates regaining is if there's a blue tsunami that wipes out the GOP. It might take a few cycles of moderates voting for democrats to drown out the radical delegates in order to regain control of their own party's primary.

I haven't seen that yet. Republicans seem to vote for crap (like Trump) as long as they have a R by their name. Hell, Roy Moore nearly won. He probably would've won in Utah had he ran.

You know the old saying? Mormons would vote for Satan over Christ in Utah as long as he had a R by his name.

I have yet to see statesmanship rise over partisanship. Hopefully your side proves me wrong.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the party's so dead they only inhabit the White House and control both the Senate and House of Representatives.
 
The Thriller said:
You are politically.

Trump is the second most popular president among republicans at 500 days. Your party leaders are afraid to stand up to Trump over the fear of being bounced in the primary (like Bob Bennett) where Trumper delegates reign supreme.

Moderate republicans either converted to Trumpism (as many in this thread have already described their families as being) or dead politically. Just look at how impotent your party leadership has become. Ted Cruz yesterday needed 18 seconds to respond to a question on whether or not a president could pardon himself (and even then his answer was concerning).

I'd love for moderate republicans to see a resurrection. They just might. But I don't see how they can the way the political structure is set up. Moderate voices just don't win delegate votes. Delegates are gatekeepers to elections. They decide who you will vote for. The only way I see moderates regaining is if there's a blue tsunami that wipes out the GOP. It might take a few cycles of moderates voting for democrats to drown out the radical delegates in order to regain control of their own party's primary.

I haven't seen that yet. Republicans seem to vote for crap (like Trump) as long as they have a R by their name. Hell, Roy Moore nearly won. He probably would've won in Utah had he ran.

You know the old saying? Mormons would vote for Satan over Christ in Utah as long as he had a R by his name.

I have yet to see statesmanship rise over partisanship. Hopefully your side proves me wrong.
Click to expand...

It's getting harder and harder to figure out what, aside from grievance politics, the GOP actually stands for these days.

Trump is the most anti free trade president we've had in generations, and he is wildly popular. See also his plan to use emergency powers to dictate energy markets buy energy from failing coal and nuclear plants. Is the party so idealogically bankrupt that they'll back anyone so long as wrap themselves in the flag and toss insults toward the right people?
 
Zombie said:
H

He literally tweeted 'I have absolute right to pardon myself,' that he followed it up with 'but why would I use it' hardly inspires confidence. Please do point me to where Obama claimed he has similar 'rights.'
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It shows how oblivious you are to conservative opinion that you believe the concerns they had about him had anything to do with the color of his suit, or similar. I don't recall ever hearing of any of the "controversies" you mentioned in an earlier post. Based on your comments I'm certain you think there was never an issue with the way he governed, but for some people there were many. Here's a sampling:
https://www.cato.org/publications/c...obama-violated-constitution-during-presidency
 
The Thriller said:
This is one of the best posts of the entire thread.

Have you ever read the book by Erich Fromm, "Escape from Freedom"?

Basically, he writes about what you just posted. Every era features new freedoms, new economic opportunities, and a displaced group of people either socially or economically. He goes back to the end of the middle ages and how capitalism sprouted throughout western Europe. Breaking from the catholic dogma and feudal system found new freedom and opportunities either socially or economically. Many swam some sank. Those who sank, often found became scared and cynical at the new freedoms presented and desired "an escape." The escape was found in authoritarian religions and/or governments. This cycle repeated during the industrial revolution too.

Where Erich really digs deep is in the Weimar Republic and how it met its demise with the rise of Nazism. Hitler and the Nazi ideology gave security and identity to those displaced in Germany and weary of the roller coaster of the Weimar Republic. Instead of "dealing with" democracy, enough displaced people in German society threw it away in favor of one man who could "fix everything." Enough people placed security as a higher priority than freedom and it led to dictatorship. The book was published in 1942 so it has an interesting perspective since the Nazi regime was still in power at its publishing.

I see the very same thing playing out right now in America. Most Trumpers aren't benefiting from his presidency. His tax cut was a complete joke. As shown last year, Trumpers would be the biggest losers if Obamacare had been repealed and Trumpcare passed. But they don't give a ****. All Trumpers care about is the feeling of "safety" and being able to troll liberals. "Who cares if the tax cut doesn't help me as long as I can stick it to the liberals, women, and brown people!"

I'm really not sure how we recover from this if we aren't permitted to get rid of Trump. He needs to be impeached, indicted, and thrown into prison. Along with his criminal cartel. They all need to go.
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This guy would make Rachel Maddow proud with his ability to overreact.
 
Zombie said:
It's getting harder and harder to figure out what, aside from grievance politics, the GOP actually stands for these days.

Trump is the most anti free trade president we've had in generations, and he is wildly popular. See also his plan to use emergency powers to dictate energy markets buy energy from failing coal and nuclear plants. Is the party so idealogically bankrupt that they'll back anyone so long as wrap themselves in the flag and toss insults toward the right people?
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Conservative commentators make almost the exact same claim about the Dems. They have no platform other than Trump hate. I listen to both sides but the conservative argument definitely resonates more with me. The idea that they are driven by grievance politics is just an attempt to simplify their position to the absurd. There can be no doubt that a large portion of the country is not in favor of the direction that Obama attempted to take it, though. Many people believe, as I do, that capitalism (despite it's shortcomings) is the best economic system ever invented. It's far better than socialism and much, much better than communism. It's surprising to me that despite all the evidence there is such a resurgence of people who think they would prefer a socialistic system.
 
JazzGal said:
I'm not excusing the left, either. They over-exaggerate and bloviate in a way that they cannot be taken seriously either. I do understand their exasperation, but they often overreach in trying to make things sound as dire as possible, which is driving people away.
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At least someone on the left gets it. Mostly the commentary on both extremes is completely unhinged.
 
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